{"id":2189427,"date":"2026-10-10T14:00:00","date_gmt":"2026-10-10T11:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/?p=2189427"},"modified":"2026-10-10T14:00:00","modified_gmt":"2026-10-10T11:00:00","slug":"will-warner-bros-kill-skydance-or-will-david-ellison-kill-warner-bros","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/?p=2189427","title":{"rendered":"Will Warner Bros. kill Skydance \u2014 or will David Ellison kill Warner Bros?"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><main id=\"content\"><\/p>\n<div class>\n<article>\n<div class=\"duet--article--lede duet--page-layout--feature-article _1se63890\">\n<div class=\"duet--ledes--feature-lede _1m5y14k0\">\n<div class=\"_1m5y14k1\">\n<div class=\"_1m5y14k6 _1m5y14k7\">\n<div class=\"_1xtd7xb5 _1xtd7xb4\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_1044qiz7\">\n<div class=\"_1m5y14k2 _1044qiz3\">\n<div class=\"_1m5y14k3\">\n<div class=\"_5s9d1e0 _5s9d1e2\">\n<div class=\"_5s9d1e5 _5s9d1e3\"><span class=\"_29pwo217\"><\/p>\n<ul 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href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/entertainment\">See All <!-- -->Entertainment<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/aside>\n<\/div>\n<\/li>\n<li>\n<div id=\"follow-category-breadcrumb-dmcyOmNhdGVnb3J5OjY1\"><button aria-expanded=\"false\" aria-haspopup=\"true\"><span class=\"gnx4pm0 _1618ekm3 _1uf8q815 _19wv7tc5 _1618ekm0\"><span class=\"_1ajq89kh _1ajq89ka _1ajq89k1 _1ajq89k0\"><\/span><span class=\"_1618ekm9\">Streaming<\/span><\/span><\/button><\/p>\n<aside id=\"popover-dmcyOmNhdGVnb3J5OjY1-breadcrumb\" style=\"position:absolute;left:0;top:0;visibility:hidden\" class=\"_1wu3rm0 _1se63890\" aria-hidden=\"true\">\n<div class=\"_1wu3rm1\"><button class=\"_1wu3rm3\"><title>Close<\/title><\/button><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1wu3rm5\">Streaming<\/div>\n<p class=\"fv263x1\">Posts from this topic will be added to your daily email digest and your homepage feed.<\/p>\n<p><button class=\"duet--cta--button _11kb06m1 _11kb06m0 fv263x2 _11kb06mg\"><span><title>Follow<\/title><\/span><span>Follow<\/span><\/button><\/p>\n<p class=\"fv263x4\"><a class=\"fv263x5\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/streaming\">See All <!-- -->Streaming<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/aside>\n<\/div>\n<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><\/span><\/div>\n<div class>\n<h1 class=\"cbn62f2 cbn62f0 cbn62f7 _19wv7tcb _19wv7tc9\">Will Warner Bros. kill Skydance \u2014 or will David Ellison kill Warner Bros?<\/h1>\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup cbn62fi cbn62fg _19wv7tcb _19wv7tc1\">Maybe the thi\u2014 no, fou\u2014 wait, fifth time\u2019s the charm for WB.\ufeff<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_29pwo22 _29pwo20 _29pwo221\">\n<div class=\"_29pwo2c _29pwo29 _29pwo2h\">\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-byline _19wv7tcb _1p3b6390\"><span class><span>by<\/span> <!-- --> <span aria-expanded=\"false\" role=\"button\" tabindex=\"0\"><span id=\"follow-author-author_byline_lead-dmcyOmF1dGhvclByb2ZpbGU6NjAx\" class=\"t0jcdf0 gnx4pm0 _1p3b6392 _1p3b6394 t0jcdf1\"><span class=\"t0jcdf2\"><span class=\"_1ajq89kh _1ajq89ka _1ajq89k1 _1ajq89k0\"><\/span><\/span><span>Nilay Patel<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<aside id=\"popover-dmcyOmF1dGhvclByb2ZpbGU6NjAx-author_byline_lead\" style=\"position:absolute;left:0;top:0;visibility:hidden\" class=\"_1wu3rm0 _1se63890\" aria-hidden=\"true\">\n<div class=\"_1wu3rm1\"><button class=\"_1wu3rm3\"><title>Close<\/title><\/button><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1bw37384\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Nilay Patel\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1bw37385 i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/chorus\/author_profile_images\/195834\/NILAY_PATEL.0.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"_1wu3rm5 _1bw37380\">Nilay Patel<\/div>\n<div class=\"_1bw37381\">\n<div class=\"_1bw37382\">Editor-in-Chief<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p class=\"fv263x1\">Posts from this author will be added to your daily email digest and your homepage feed.<\/p>\n<p><button class=\"duet--cta--button _11kb06m1 _11kb06m0 fv263x2 _11kb06mg\"><span><title>Follow<\/title><\/span><span>Follow<\/span><\/button><\/p>\n<p class=\"fv263x4\"><a class=\"fv263x5\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/authors\/nilay-patel\">See All by <!-- -->Nilay Patel<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/aside>\n<p><\/span><\/div>\n<p><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw6 g4xafw1 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5 _19wv7tcb\"><time datetime=\"2026-10-10T14:00:00+00:00\">Oct 10, 2026, 2:00 PM UTC<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"_29pwo2o _29pwo2m _29pwo2w\">\n<div class=\"_29pwo210 _29pwo2x _29pwo215\"><span class=\"_29pwo216 _29pwo217\"><\/p>\n<ul class=\"duet--article--share-buttons _1e9wo7z0\">\n<li>\n<div class=\"_1e9wo7zo\"><button 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class=\"r21yj70\">\n<div class=\"f8x97j3 _1044qizz\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--layout--entry-body-container j2p4kx0 _1044qiz3 _1044qiz17\">\n<div class=\"j2p4kx1\">\n<div class=\"duet--layout--entry-body mebm7x0\">\n<div class=\"duet--ledes--standard-lede-bottom\">\n<div class=\"h9mca15\">\n<div class=\"waimqt2 waimqt0\">\n<div class=\"_4aoxp30 _4aoxp31\">\n<div class=\"_4aoxp33\"><a class=\"_4aoxp36\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/authors\/nilay-patel\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Nilay Patel\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" width=\"36\" height=\"36\" data-nimg=\"1\" class=\"_4aoxp34\" style=\"color:transparent\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/chorus\/author_profile_images\/195834\/NILAY_PATEL.0.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=96\"><\/a><\/div>\n<div class=\"_4aoxp35\"><span aria-expanded=\"false\" role=\"button\" tabindex=\"0\"><span id=\"follow-author-standard_article_details-dmcyOmF1dGhvclByb2ZpbGU6NjAx\" class=\"t0jcdf0 gnx4pm0 _1p3b6392 _1p3b6393 t0jcdf1\"><span class=\"t0jcdf2\"><span class=\"_1ajq89ke _1ajq89k1 _1ajq89k0\"><\/span><\/span><span>Nilay Patel<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<aside id=\"popover-dmcyOmF1dGhvclByb2ZpbGU6NjAx-standard_article_details\" style=\"position:absolute;left:0;top:0;visibility:hidden\" class=\"_1wu3rm0 _1se63890\" aria-hidden=\"true\">\n<div class=\"_1wu3rm1\"><button class=\"_1wu3rm3\"><title>Close<\/title><\/button><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1bw37384\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Nilay Patel\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1bw37385 i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/chorus\/author_profile_images\/195834\/NILAY_PATEL.0.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"_1wu3rm5 _1bw37380\">Nilay Patel<\/div>\n<div class=\"_1bw37381\"><\/div>\n<p class=\"fv263x1\">Posts from this author will be added to your daily email digest and your homepage feed.<\/p>\n<p><button class=\"duet--cta--button _11kb06m1 _11kb06m0 fv263x2 _11kb06mg\"><span><title>Follow<\/title><\/span><span>Follow<\/span><\/button><\/p>\n<p class=\"fv263x4\"><a class=\"fv263x5\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/authors\/nilay-patel\">See All by <!-- -->Nilay Patel<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/aside>\n<p> <span class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup _4aoxp37\">is editor-in-chief of The Verge, host of the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/decoder-podcast-with-nilay-patel\"><b>Decoder podcast<\/b><\/a>, and co-host of <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/the-vergecast\"><b>The Vergecast<\/b><\/a>.<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div id=\"zephr-anchor\" class=\"_1044qiz13\">\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _18mzr4b6 _18mzr4b5 _19wv7tc1\">Today, I\u2019m talking with Peter Kafka, chief correspondent at <em>Business Insider<\/em> and host of the <em>Channels<\/em> podcast, about the gigantic Warner Bros.-Paramount merger and the future of the company now simply called Skydance.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Skydance is owned by David Ellison, son of Oracle CEO Larry Ellison, and its deal to acquire Warner Bros. Discovery officially closed the day Peter and I spoke.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">There are some grand ambitions here, but the reality is that acquiring Warner never goes well for anyone. AOL failed, AT&amp;T failed, and Discovery failed \u2014 although it did succeed in flipping these assets to Skydance. So I wanted to ask Peter if he thinks the Ellisons and Skydance have a real shot at succeeding where so many companies before them have hit the rocks.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Okay: Peter Kafka on Warner Bros. and Skydance. Here we go.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--block-placement _1xorkac1 _1xorkac0 duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup _1h0hdr20\">\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><em>This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity.<\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Peter Kafka, you\u2019re the chief correspondent at Business Insider, and you\u2019re the host of the<\/strong> <strong><em>Channels<\/em><\/strong> <strong>podcast, our sister podcast here on the Vox Media Podcast Network. Welcome back to<\/strong> <strong><em>Decoder<\/em><\/strong><strong>.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Thanks for having me. It\u2019s big media day again!<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>A big media day. It\u2019s an auspicious day, as my parents would say. It is the day that the Warner-Paramount merger closes. We\u2019ve all been calling it Warner Mount, but I\u2019m told this company will instead<\/strong> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/entertainment\/1004016\/paramount-warner-bros-skydance-megamerger-name\"><strong>just be called Skydance<\/strong><\/a><strong>. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Skydance!<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Every time I see the word Skydance, I assume it is foreign-owned, which is maybe true in some way.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Another way to think of it is that there are iconic names in Hollywood. Paramount is such an iconic name that Viacom <a href=\"https:\/\/www.cbsnews.com\/news\/paramount-viacomcbs-name-change-company\/\">turned itself into Paramount<\/a> years ago. Warner Bros. is a legendary studio. Let\u2019s get rid of those names. Let\u2019s add Skydance, which no one\u2019s ever heard of.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Let\u2019s just start at the start. There was Paramount. There\u2019s Warner Bros. The deal closes today. That is all going to be a new company called Skydance. Is Skydance just a holding company? Are we as consumers meant to know that this thing exists?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I think for the near term, you\u2019re still gonna think of companies like Paramount, Warner Bros., and HBO as brands you know, but this is going to be one company. They\u2019re going to merge everything. They\u2019re likely going to merge the streaming services, Paramount and HBO, into a thing, not right away, but eventually. So I do think Skydance will be a name that consumers will probably know at some point.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--block-placement _1xorkac2 _1xorkac0 duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<div class=\"duet--article--highlight _1044qizl _1upt4f20\">\n<div class=\"_1upt4f21\"><\/div>\n<div>\n<div style=\"position:relative\">\n<div class>\n<div class>\n<div style=\"background-image:none\" class=\"duet--media--content-warning _1k8kvzd0\">\n<div class=\"duet--article--image-gallery-image _1pegheu0\" style=\"aspect-ratio:1\" id=\"dmcyOmltYWdlOjU5NQ==\"><a class=\"_1pegheu1\" href=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/chorus\/uploads\/chorus_asset\/file\/24792604\/The_Verge_Decoder_Tileart.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0,0,100,100\" data-pswp-height=\"3000\" data-pswp-width=\"3000\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/chorus\/uploads\/chorus_asset\/file\/24792604\/The_Verge_Decoder_Tileart.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_1upt4f24\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1 _1upt4f27\"><em>Verge<\/em> subscribers, don\u2019t forget you get exclusive access to ad-free <em>Decoder<\/em> wherever you get your podcasts. Head <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/account\/podcasts\">here<\/a>. Not a subscriber? You can <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/subscribe\">sign up here<\/a>.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>I just have to ask, what are the chances that HBO Max will be rebranded yet again into Skydance?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">There\u2019s probably gonna be some branding stuff. Not again. In the near term, because this is still a cable TV company, there are actually some limits on what these guys can do with their brands and their services. And they won\u2019t come out and say, \u201cWe\u2019re gonna mush this stuff together.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">But there\u2019s likely to be one mega streaming service, and maybe you can get HBO separately, or maybe you can only get HBO or only Paramount. Still, it\u2019s gonna be one thing, and one movie studio. It\u2019s all gonna get mushed together, and it\u2019s all gonna be run by David Ellison.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>David Ellison is just the latest to believe that he can buy Warner Bros. and make something good happen. I have joked many times on this show that maybe the only antitrust policy this country needs is to make it illegal to buy Warner Bros., and that would just solve a lot of problems. Why does he think he will be successful?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Well, his dad\u2019s the eighth richest man in the world, so that\u2019s not nothing.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>That Oracle stock is tied up in a bunch of AI stuff. It\u2019s moving up and down.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">We can talk about that. But one, that means that he literally has the money to buy this, and two, that this is a public company kind of in name only. David Ellison and Larry Ellison, his father, control this company effectively. They don\u2019t really need to worry that much about equity shareholders. Debt\u2019s a different issue.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">And he\u2019s 43. He\u2019s got a long run backed by tens of billions of dollars of his father\u2019s money to take a stab at this. And as you said, he will not be the first person to do this. There\u2019s a long list of failures. I think maybe that\u2019s appealing to guys like him. It\u2019s like, \u201cEveryone else is dumb. I\u2019m the smart guy who\u2019s gonna figure it out.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>\u201cEveryone else is dumb, and I\u2019m smarter than everyone else is,\u201d is very appealing. But that long list of failures, if you just look at it \u2014 they\u2019re all shaped like this idea. We\u2019re gonna take iconic Warner Bros. content, we\u2019re gonna marry it to new distribution, we\u2019re gonna reduce the overhead and costs and decadence of Hollywood. Where does new revenue come from?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">There\u2019s no plan for new revenue. There\u2019s no <em>announced<\/em> plan for new revenue. Right now it\u2019s shrinking; it\u2019s cutting costs. It\u2019s when we merge these two companies together, we\u2019re gonna save $6 billion over the next three years. We promise that most of that\u2019s not gonna come from layoffs, but a lot of it\u2019s gonna come from layoffs.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">These are companies that have had many, many rounds of layoffs prior to this. And you could argue, well, there\u2019s probably not that much more to cut. I think reasonably you could say, look, if you combine two big streaming operations, two big studio operations, there probably is stuff [to cut]. You can probably sell off some real estate. You probably don\u2019t need all the executives you currently have. There\u2019s some savings there. But how do you grow? No idea. And no one\u2019s really articulated that.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Growth is required for a couple of reasons here. One, yes, there are going to be shareholders; people will be looking at it. There\u2019s David Ellison\u2019s ego. Then there\u2019s debt. This deal is levered to the max, right?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Eighty billion dollars [in debt]. Eight zero. More important than the number is the reason that David Ellison was able to buy Warner Bros. was that the last owner <a href=\"https:\/\/www.hollywoodreporter.com\/business\/business-news\/warner-bros-discovery-debt-megadeal-questions-1235868542\/\">couldn\u2019t deal with the debt<\/a> that he took on to buy the company. And that was a mere $43 or $50 billion, depending on who was counting. This is David Zaslav, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.thewrap.com\/industry-news\/business\/david-zaslav-paramount-warner-bros-discovery-merger-payout\/\">the former CEO<\/a> of Warner Bros. Discovery, who spent his entire tenure running that company telling Wall Street that, yes, he was gonna get the debt down, and that was his main focus, and debt, debt, debt, reduce, reduce, reduce.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I mean, he did reduce some debt, but he never convinced Wall Street that he had a plan to grow. Wall Street gave up on this company years ago, which is why when David Ellison decided he wanted to buy it, the stock was, like, seven bucks or something like that. Eventually bought it for, you know, many, many times that.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">And now David Zaslav is considered \u2014 or he considers himself \u2014 a genius for selling the company at such a high price. You could also argue, as someone told me yesterday, that a unicorn sort of manifested itself and allowed David Zaslav to exit the situation he had put himself into.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I don\u2019t know who the next unicorn will be for this company if David Ellison at some point decides, \u201cUgh, actually this is a lot of debt and a lot of pain. I don\u2019t wanna do this anymore.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>I want to come back to that because I have a little bit of a conspiracy theory. It\u2019s a little bit supported by the attitudes of some of the players here, but we\u2019ll come back around. Even the previous owner, AT&amp;T, which is remarkable that AT&amp;T was the&#8230; Somewhere in this chain of ownership, AT&amp;T owned Warner.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Yes.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>They could not deal with these assets. Their plan was to distribute Warner content on AT&amp;T phones, which never made any sense. But they were a more aggressive owner.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">It also wasn\u2019t really their plan. Their plan was, \u201cHey, Netflix is a really valuable company. The stock is very high. We\u2019re this boring telecoms company. Our stock is not moving. What if we owned a [version of] Netflix? I bet Wall Street would reward us as a high-flying tech company all of a sudden.\u201d And Wall Street didn\u2019t.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Within a couple of years, AT&amp;T said, \u201cUh, oh yeah, no, we\u2019re out of this.\u201d And yes, they had said a bunch of stuff about mobile, connectivity, ads, and targeting, and none of that ever went anywhere<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>I will never forget covering their antitrust case when they had to get approval for that deal. They<\/strong> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/2018\/6\/12\/17452870\/att-time-warner-merger-decision-judge\"><strong>convinced the judge<\/strong><\/a> <strong>that they had a vision of the future. The judge in that case, in the appeals court opinion, wrote, \u201cThis is a vision deal.\u201d And I thought, \u201cWe\u2019re doomed.\u201d Like, I don\u2019t know what\u2019s going on in our judiciary [system].<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I want a Vision deal. How do I get one of those?<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>I don\u2019t know. I was like, \u201cI don\u2019t know what that is at all.\u201d <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>So, we have a lot of debt. The FCC had to<\/strong> <a href=\"https:\/\/arstechnica.com\/tech-policy\/2026\/09\/fcc-lets-paramount-sell-49-5-equity-stake-to-saudi-arabia-uae-and-qatar\/\"><strong>waive the cap<\/strong><\/a> <strong>on foreign ownership. There\u2019s 49 percent of the money from the Gulf in this company. Then there\u2019s the Oracle of it. I\u2019ve always wondered<\/strong> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/entertainment\/845532\/larry-ellison-paramount-wb-netflix-takeover-oracle\"><strong>why anyone would trade<\/strong><\/a> <strong>what amounts to an AI stock for a media stock, especially right now. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>But the AI trade is a little shakier than it was before. Oracle has been punished a little bit for this deal. What do you make of that? Is that an effective backstop?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I don\u2019t know if Oracle was punished for this deal. I mean, there was a period a year ago when Larry Ellison\u2019s net worth was double what it is now. And you could say, \u201cWell, that was just a weird AI blip.\u201d It\u2019s still a very highly valued company. He is still the eighth richest man in the world because of his Oracle holdings.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Wall Street is a little bit nervous now about the fact that Larry Ellison\u2019s source of wealth is Oracle. He\u2019s borrowing from Oracle. He has backstopped the Warner Bros. deal by pledging to come up with $40 or $50 billion if he needs to. And there is a question of, like, all right, not only is Oracle sort of intimately tied into this new media company, but Oracle\u2019s also entirely dependent on one AI company, OpenAI, for its new plan.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">So late in life \u2014 Larry Ellison is 82 years old \u2014 he\u2019s decided he\u2019s kind of putting the entire company on AI and on OpenAI specifically. And while he\u2019s not doing that, he\u2019s going to use some of that money to fund his son\u2019s media empire. I don\u2019t know if it\u2019s rickety, but it\u2019s definitely a question mark.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>I open Instagram. Right now my Instagram algorithm is crazy because I keep looking for Instagram\u2019s tolerance for copyright infringement, and it is high. Instagram has basically unlimited tolerance for copyright infringement. Mark Zuckerberg is posting deepfake memes of himself doing rap videos now.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">These are details. By the way, Nilay, you know who\u2019s figured out the Instagram and Reels algorithm? You! I get so much Nilay front-facing video. You\u2019re very good at it. You should consider being an influencer. You have figured this out.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>I try to deeply understand the things that are gonna kill me, and so that\u2019s&#8230; We\u2019re just looking at that one, and I\u2019m looking at my daughter. I\u2019m like, \u201cI should know what\u2019s going on here.\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>All this AI makes it impossibly cheap and easy to just take the IP from these movie studios. I watched a video last night of the Heath Ledger Joker and the Christian Bale Batman just doing a Justin Bieber video, and then I was served 5,000 more videos like this.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>That\u2019s the OpenAI business. They\u2019re gonna destroy the creative foundations that make the IP valuable that Warner Bros. makes, and somewhere in there is a big problem that I can\u2019t quite figure out.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Yeah, I think it maybe is simpler than that. You\u2019re right, there are all kinds of copyright issues. The value of your library may be much less if someone can just take it without paying you. But I think the bigger issue for David Ellison and anyone in the media business is that what you really want is people\u2019s attention.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">You have this company saddled with $80 billion in debt because it makes all kinds of entertainment, really expensive movies, all this sort of stuff, and now anyone can make anything that will at least get your attention for a few seconds on Instagram and TikTok. And so there\u2019s this flood of stuff, whether it\u2019s copyright infringement or not, it\u2019s just stuff that the David Ellisons of the world have to contend with because your daughter and my kids might easily watch that stuff rather than the original <em>Batman<\/em> movie.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I think that is sort of the existential problem [not just] for Skydance, but every media company today.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>But the Skydance purchase is being funded by the OpenAI deal with Oracle money. OpenAI just took all the stuff, right? This is a thing I can\u2019t quite square: If OpenAI succeeds at the level that is necessary for the Ellison family to stay wealthy, then they will have massively profited from overwhelming IP theft, and they will have a product that can make anyone a movie at any time for zero dollars, rendering Warner effectively useless.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Maybe you\u2019re right! Again, I think there is a core tension here in that the reason you say that Skydance is worth what it\u2019s worth is because of its existing library and its ability to make new stuff. And a lot of that may be much, much less valuable going forward. There\u2019s a counter that says, look, you know, people were stealing music for decades, and somehow Spotify and the music industry figured out how to actually sell $120 worth of music per year to people who were only buying two CDs per year prior to that.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">So maybe there\u2019s a way to math yourself out of this, but we don\u2019t know yet.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>There are other constraints on this deal. This deal is actually marked by constraints and challenges, in a particular way. The big one is that in order to settle the antitrust lawsuit filed by California and a bunch of other states, they agreed to<\/strong> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/entertainment\/999056\/paramount-warner-bros-discovery-merger-annual-film-quota-guardrails\"><strong>put out 30 films per year<\/strong><\/a> <strong>or pay $30 million per film that they missed into healthcare and retirement funds managed by the unions. After two years, they have to go up to 32 movies per year, and if they don\u2019t hit that, they\u2019ve gotta sell their 49 percent stake in Miramax. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>This is a pretty intense constraint, right? They\u2019ve gotta just make a bunch of movies; they do not make this many movies right now. So how are you gonna cut costs to make more movies?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I think the math there is that we have these two studios. If you sort of totaled up what they were gonna do already, it\u2019s close to 30. And, to be clear, this is not really a constraint from California. This is a pledge that David Ellison was shouting from the rooftop for months and months and months. And if you want to, we can talk about the non-settlement he extracted from California. But this has been David Ellison\u2019s pitch for a long time.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I think the main thing is that David Ellison has proved that he can sort of get California and regulators around the world, and definitely federal regulators in the Donald Trump era, to go along with whatever he asks for. I don\u2019t think they\u2019re gonna be constrained by regulation.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I think they\u2019re gonna be constrained by math and debt, and are you shaving that debt down fast enough to make bondholders happy?<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>I\u2019m actually asking about math here. I do want to talk about the non-settlement, but the 30 films per year going up to 32, I don\u2019t know that there\u2019s a market for that. It\u2019s not like the box office is growing at the rate to support that, and if you need to pay down your debt, the first thing you would do is stop making things that people aren\u2019t buying.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I mean, there\u2019s some finagling, right? Like, what is a movie? Does a movie have to be released in movie theaters? You know, is a piece of shit that no one watches a movie? And then again, I think, in that settlement in California, they said literally, like, \u201cX number of movies have to be in a movie theater,\u201d which means a lot of them don\u2019t.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">So who knows what they will use to fulfill that obligation. But for the near term, I don\u2019t think that is gonna be their primary problem.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Let\u2019s talk about California for one second. I actually got an email from a reader saying that I always call out Republicans by name, but I only say California. So I will say it appears [Governor] Gavin Newsom and [Attorney General] Rob Bonta totally caved here. Ellison threatened to move to Nashville or something, and they blinked, and I think the other states in that lawsuit were not happy that they blinked, but they totally blinked. What is the settlement? Does it have any teeth at all?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">No. It\u2019s all the stuff that David Ellison was already proposing, and none of the things that Rob Bonta, the attorney general of California, said he was demanding. He was saying, \u201cWe need structural remedies.\u201d I\u2019m sure I don\u2019t need to tell a <em>Decoder<\/em> audience what a structural remedy is.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">He was like, \u201cBehavioral remedies are not adequate. It won\u2019t work.\u201d He was saying that up until the weekend that he caved, and then he caved, and he had this humiliating press conference where he had to stand up and say, \u201cThis is, this is a good deal. I really believe in it.\u201d Apparently, he was considered, like, a rising star in Democratic politics, in California politics. I have not been exposed to him prior to that press conference, but it\u2019s very hard to imagine that guy has a&#8230; He doesn\u2019t seem to have a lot of juice. Anyway, enough about my political musings.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">There\u2019s very little in here. I don\u2019t think Paramount gave up a single thing to actually make this deal work. You got it right. They said, \u201cWe\u2019re gonna leave if you don\u2019t give us what we want.\u201d Anyone who\u2019s watched professional sports, who\u2019s rooted for a professional sports team, knows how this goes. \u201cIf you don\u2019t build me my new stadium, if you don\u2019t give me billions of dollars to refurbish my stadium, I\u2019m gonna leave.\u201d And sometimes those teams do leave, but most of the time they stay and they get what they want, and that seems to have been the Ellison playbook here.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">David Ellison\u2019s pitch to Hollywood for the last two years was like, \u201cI grew up here. I love movies. I love Hollywood. I love film.\u201d And then the last few months were, \u201cI\u2019m gonna ditch this and go to Tennessee or wherever else and fuck Hollywood,\u201d which is kinda hard to square those two things.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>The second he got that settlement, he was like, \u201cNo, I love LA. I was never planning to leave.\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I think they looked at this from the start as: We\u2019ll say and do whatever we need to make this deal get done. And once it\u2019s done, it\u2019ll all be behind us; we can go back to loving LA, and no one\u2019s ever gonna pay attention to this.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">And by the way, he might be right.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>I do have to note that Peter is a Vikings fan. I\u2019m a Packers fan. I do not believe the Bears are gonna move to Indiana. We\u2019re literally watching this situation play out in front of us right now.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">That\u2019s a wild one. I will say the Minnesota North Stars no longer exist. The Dallas Stars. Minnesota was without hockey for several years. So sometimes these guys actually do follow through and move the team.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Yeah. Speaking of Minnesota, who knew you didn\u2019t need a quarterback to go four and 0? Just throwing that out there. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Let\u2019s talk about the NFL for one other second. The<\/strong> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/962994\/comcast-nbc-universal-split-versant-content-plus-pipes-media-broadband\"><strong>last time<\/strong><\/a> <strong>you were on the show, you pointed out that CBS broadcast television exists to sell the American people the NFL. That is the business. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Speaking of math, of costs, there is a change of control clause in the NFL deal with CBS. They could come in there, they could raise rates, they could get Amazon or Apple or Google to throw a bunch of money on the table and basically tank this company. They could take CBS\u2019s business away.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Does that feel like a meaningful threat right now?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">No. I think CBS will pay whatever it needs to pay to keep the NFL. It is existential for them. I think the NFL knows that. But also, the NFL, as much as they like streaming stuff and streaming deals, they like broadcast TV. They like that distribution. It\u2019s also a political football, pun intended. If the NFL went away from broadcast television, I think that would become an actual national political emergency. You\u2019d actually have Republicans and Democrats united to sort of stop it or do something about it.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">It\u2019s very hard for me to believe that the NFL leaves broadcast TV, and I think because CBS needs it so badly, I just think they\u2019ll pay whatever they need to pay.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Let\u2019s talk about the structure of this deal. I love talking about corporate structure on the show, as you know. You have<\/strong> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.businessinsider.com\/skydance-warner-paramount-ceo-ynon-kreiz-who-is-david-ellison-2026-10?op=1\"><strong>a profile of the new co-CEO<\/strong><\/a> <strong>of Skydance, Ynon Kreiz. He was most recently at Mattel.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>There\u2019s actually a lot of Peter in this story because he left Mattel to go run Skydance. And the CEO of Cond\u00e9 Nast, Roger Lynch, is leaving Cond\u00e9 Nast to go to Mattel, and we\u2019ll find out who the new CEO of Cond\u00e9 Nast will be. These are all Peter Kafka stories in a way.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Oh, it goes deeper than that. I met Ynon Kreiz when he was running a company called Maker Studios back in the YouTube MCN days, for any of your ancient watchers and listeners. And he sold that company to Disney, and I actually broke that story. And at the time it was considered this huge deal, Disney\u2019s big bet on digital media. The numbers are so small now it\u2019s laughable. And that was a total failure. A long line of Disney digital acquisitions that did not work. They\u2019re really snake-bitten there.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Kreiz was the guy brought in. That was a really wooly company founded by a group of YouTubers who were dating each other but also harassing each other. And he was basically brought in, first as chairman, and then CEO, to be the grown-up and to sort of whip this thing into shape and sell it off, which he did.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>It\u2019s funny, the MCN era ended because YouTube decided that MCNs shouldn\u2019t exist, and they just killed them all. Again, another theme that will emerge somewhere down the line in this conversation. Tell me about Ynon.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Ynon\u2019s got lots and lots of media credentials. He ran Endemol back when that was a really important TV production company. He worked with Haim Saban, if any&#8230; No one knows who Haim Saban is anymore.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Mighty Morphin Power Rangers?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Exactly. He did Maker and then went to Mattel, where he gets credit for making the <em>Barbie<\/em> movie.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Now, he didn\u2019t actually make the <em>Barbie<\/em> movie, the long-running thing, but he put that deal together with Margot Robbie and it was a giant, giant success. So that counts as a big win. He also cut 22 percent of Mattel\u2019s workforce, sort of immediately upon getting there. That\u2019s sort of what you bring Ynon Kreiz in to do. You don\u2019t bring him to have lunch at the Polo Lounge and make nice with talent. You bring him in because you need to whip things into shape and cut things, and that\u2019s his deal.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I was talking to a bunch of people the last few days. He strikes me as a guy who doesn\u2019t have terribly high EQ. Other folks say, \u201cNo, no, no, no. He\u2019s tough, but he\u2019s actually a teddy bear if you get to know him.\u201d I think most people who get laid off by him won\u2019t consider him a teddy bear, but that\u2019s his job: to go do the unpleasant work of finding $6 billion in synergy.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Because you are a corporate structure lover, you probably have noticed that while Ynon Kreiz is co-CEO of Skydance, David Ellison is not the other co-CEO. David Ellison is the CEO. So at a minimum, we have a one A and one B thing. But also, let\u2019s be clear, David Ellison and his father own the company, so ultimately it\u2019s their deal.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I think quite clearly what David Ellison wants to do is be able to have lunch at the Polo Lounge, the San Vicente Bungalows, or wherever they go, and someone will come up to him and say, \u201cI\u2019m really angry about this layoff or this movie project that you canceled.\u201d And he\u2019ll say, \u201cOh, that sounds terrible. You should really talk to Ynon about that. My hands are tied.\u201d That\u2019s Ynon Kreiz\u2019s job.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Ellison wants to hang out with Tom Cruise. This whole thing, from start to finish, is like, one guy wants to hang out with Tom Cruise, and he\u2019s gonna manufacture a company that will allow him to do that at scale.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I will give David Ellison more credit than that. David Ellison, when he ran Skydance, his primary achievement was befriending Tom Cruise. And I\u2019m sure he liked hanging out with him, but that\u2019s why Skydance was a company: David Ellison was in the Tom Cruise business. He was in the <em>Mission Impossible<\/em> business, the <em>Top Gun<\/em> business.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">That is what the job of a producer is: getting people to&#8230; You don\u2019t really do anything as a producer. You just sort of package stuff, and he was able to be in the Tom Cruise business, and that\u2019s what got him as far as he\u2019s been able to get. And that is his job. That <em>was<\/em> his job. Now he\u2019s got a different job.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>There\u2019s probably a PhD thesis on the kind of personality that accepts a co-CEO title without another co-CEO.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I\u2019ve thought about that from the get-go because of the chain of events \u2014 was it last week? \u2014 Roger Lynch, CEO of Cond\u00e9 Nast, who said, \u201cI\u2019m now the CEO of Mattel.\u201d For an hour or so, no one knew where Ynon Kreiz was going, and then the rumor was, \u201cOh, he\u2019s gonna have a job at Warner\u2019s. I\u2019m like, well, what job could he take?<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">He\u2019s already been the CEO of a big publicly traded company. These guys don\u2019t usually accept a demotion. And quite clearly what he\u2019s&#8230; One, they said, \u201cAll right, you\u2019re the co-CEO,\u201d so it\u2019s not a demotion. Two, there are only a handful of these giant media conglomerates. If you can run one, that\u2019s just a big notch to have on your belt.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Number three, they\u2019re gonna pay him $50 million this year. So that will help salve some of those wounds, and I think everyone sort of acknowledged it. Like, he\u2019s effectively the COO of Skydance, if you think about it. You just give him a different title so it sounds better.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>There\u2019s some other shuffling under that to do. You\u2019ve got two movie studios. You have James Gunn running DC really well, actually. I think<\/strong> <strong><em>Lanterns<\/em><\/strong> <strong>is just a bona fide hit for HBO. You\u2019ve got two news divisions, which we should talk about. How are they going to resolve these conflicts? Are they just gonna pick one team or the other?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Yeah. I mean, they\u2019ve already done that with streaming. Cindy Holland, who pioneered Netflix\u2019s move into original programming more than a decade ago, was brought in by David Ellison a year ago to run that streaming service. He\u2019s just bought HBO, which is run by Casey Bloys, very well-regarded, who spent the last year making it clear to everyone that he would not work with or for Cindy Holland.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I don\u2019t think there was personal animus. He\u2019s just like, \u201cI already run HBO. Why would I want to share power with somebody else?\u201d So it seemed pretty clear that David Ellison would pick that horse, and I think he\u2019s gonna make a bunch of those calls. The people who ran the Warner Bros. studio, which a year ago was the toast of the town, were making tons of money and critical acclaim. This year, they produced <em>Digger<\/em>, Tom Cruise\u2019s biggest bomb ever, and they\u2019re having a rough year. But it was always sort of clear that David Ellison was gonna bring in his people.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">David Ellison is not an art film guy \u2014 he\u2019s not a guy who\u2019s gonna allow Paul Thomas Anderson to make <em>One Battle After Another<\/em> again. He\u2019s in the <em>Mission Impossible<\/em> Tom Cruise-iverse, so that\u2019s not surprising. CNN and CBS, people have been talking about merging those companies almost as long as I\u2019ve been covering the media, so that\u2019s not a new idea.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">They have said, I think wisely for now, \u201cWell, we\u2019re not gonna merge those two,\u201d because we just know it\u2019s a fucking shit storm politically if they touch that stuff. And this is pure speculation, but they might also say, \u201cWell, we hired Bari Weiss and gave her CBS News to run, and maybe we told her she\u2019d also get to play with CNN. But it\u2019s been a rough year over at CBS in the Bari Weiss business, and maybe even if we\u2019re gonna give it to Bari Weiss a couple years down the road, let\u2019s not stir that nest right now.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">So Mark Thompson, who\u2019s been running CNN, is gonna continue to run CNN. But again, in the background, no matter what Mark Thompson\u2026 He has control of CNN. Ynon Kreiz is still gonna be in there saying, \u201cI know this is your business, but it\u2019s really my business, and you need to cut 10 percent or 20 percent,\u201d or whatever it is, and everyone has to do it.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">And so in some ways, yes, it matters who\u2019s running these individual studios and components, but again, the debt is hanging over everything. Everyone is gonna have to work to reduce that debt one way or the other.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>The Bari Weiss thesis at CBS, as charitably as I can put it, was that when she showed up, she was like, \u201cNo one trusts the news, and it\u2019s because we\u2019re not fair enough, and I\u2019m gonna do more conservative stuff.\u201d And that was part of the regulatory arbitrage with the Trump administration. They were gonna change CBS because Donald Trump did not like the coverage on CBS, and that worked or didn\u2019t work.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>But I think we now know that she did not increase trust in CBS News by making it a more conservative-friendly organization. The ratings are down, like precipitously down, such that a lot of people think that she should just be fired and something else should happen. I would \u2014<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Yeah, I don\u2019t see that happening.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Well, right, because he\u2019s gotta do regulatory arbitrage on both sides. We have midterms \u2014<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">And I think he likes Bari Weiss. I think David Ellison is not a political person. I think his father, Larry Ellison, is probably not that political. Tom Dotan in <em>Vanity Fair<\/em> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.vanityfair.com\/story\/larry-ellison-profile\">just did a profile<\/a> of Larry Ellison and sort of gets at the idea of how he\u2019s bought these big media empires. He also owns a chunk of TikTok. Is there a thing here? And his conclusion is no, it\u2019s not. He really doesn\u2019t have much politics. But the one thing the Ellison family cares a lot about is Israel. Bari Weiss cares a lot about Israel. That is the one ideological through line there. I think they\u2019d be loath to sort of cut her loose.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">And also, it\u2019s been a clusterfuck over at CBS, but I don\u2019t know that she\u2019s done a worse job running it than anybody else has recently. It\u2019s just that there\u2019s systemic decline. Now, she may make it even worse. It\u2019s possible. And as a journalist, you may not like what she\u2019s doing. But if you\u2019re running the business, I don\u2019t know that she has made it <em>that<\/em> much worse. I think the Ellisons probably don\u2019t like the headaches and headlines generated by it, but I also don\u2019t think they care that much.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>I mean, I go on TikTok, and I see any clip from any<\/strong> <strong><em>60 Minutes<\/em><\/strong> <strong>or CBS News account, and all of the comments are, \u201cYou ruined this. I blame Bari Weiss. I can\u2019t trust you.\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>That is a decline in trust from where they were before, when no one knew who was running CBS News. I would actually \u2014.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I think you should not know who the heads of network news are.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Yeah. I think it\u2019s bad that the kids on TikTok are like, \u201cI hate this one person that has nothing to do with the video clip I\u2019m seeing now.\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>I bring that up because of the TikTok of it all. The idea that TikTok was a national security threat, that the United States Congress voted unanimously to ban it, that Biden voted to ban it, but then he knew it was political suicide, so he kicked the imposition of the ban to the Trump administration. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>All of that, as you peel apart the reporting, what did members of Congress see in their closed-door meetings? It comes down, as far as any of the reporting I\u2019ve ever seen, to how they thought it was spreading pro-Palestinian propaganda, anti-Israel propaganda. Now the Ellisons own it. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>As you said, they care very deeply about the issue of Israel, and I can\u2019t say that their ownership of TikTok has meaningfully moved the needle on how people feel about the war in Gaza in any way, shape, or form. Did they try? <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Perhaps people were disappointed with Israel\u2019s conduct <em>prior<\/em> to the invention of TikTok. Perhaps there are other reasons they may not be concerned. And, you know, the reason Congress voted for this. It\u2019s maybe the only thing Congress has passed in years is this rule saying China can\u2019t own TikTok, which they then immediately forgot about during the first year of the Trump administration.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I do think the China of it all was meaningful for some people, but they clearly also just didn\u2019t care. It\u2019s kinda wild to see Congress pass a bill that becomes a law and then not try to enforce it at all.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>They knew it was suicide. I don\u2019t know if you remember this, but there was a day when it was the House committee, and AOC was on this committee, and they went into a SCIF to view some intelligence about TikTok. They all came out and voted unanimously to ban this thing, and no one for months could figure out what they saw in there.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>And it was like, \u201cDid you see a picture of Chinese intelligence services turning the knobs in the algorithm to poison the minds of American youth?\u201d And they\u2019re like, \u201cNo, no, no.\u201d <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">\u201cThey showed us some videos.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Yeah, it was like, \u201cWhat, what are you looking at in there?\u201d And then we just sold it to someone who may or may not have some political leanings, but they have some control that is equivalent to the Chinese control, which was so scary that we had to ban this platform.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>I\u2019m bringing this all up because that is the thing that is reducing trust in the news media. It is not the news media itself, right? The news media makes its mistakes in whatever ways it makes its mistakes. But it\u2019s a bunch of influencers on social platforms who start every video by saying, \u201cHere\u2019s what they\u2019re not telling you,\u201d which is actually the mechanism of reducing trust.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>And then they read you<\/strong> <strong><em>The New York Times.<\/em><\/strong> <strong>As somebody who now makes these videos \u2014<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">\u201cNo one\u2019s covering this! Let me read you a <em>New York Times<\/em> story about it.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">The other thing that has reduced trust in the media is that Republicans, for 40 years, have been saying the media is biased. And if you say something for 40 years and you\u2019re one of the two parties running the country, I think that message sort of seeps in, before TikTok, before social media.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>But if I had to pick the two things that are the biggest threats to the businesses that David Ellison now owns, I would pick AI, and I would pick social media, and those are the other big investments of the Ellison family. Is this all just an elaborate hedge, or does he have a plan to use TikTok to amplify his content? To market these movies?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I don\u2019t think they have a plan. One of the through lines when David Ellison was buying Paramount was that David Ellison\u2019s a successful producer. You add his dad, who runs Oracle; he\u2019s got a lot of tech know-how. And also, David Ellison is not just a movie producer; he\u2019s a technologist. This was the thing they stood up and said at a press conference. And he said, \u201cYes, yes, I was mentored by Steve Jobs.\u201d He wasn\u2019t mentored by Steve Jobs.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">But anyway, the whole premise was we\u2019re gonna techify this and cloud and Oracle. And maybe they could save $10, $20, maybe $100 million on sort of back-office-y things by swapping in an Oracle contract for something else. Although, I think in the normal world, you\u2019d say just because your dad owns this company, we don\u2019t get to bring it in as a technology company for this publicly traded company. Whatever. But there\u2019s never been any indication that they\u2019ve got any other plan other than shaving some costs.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I don\u2019t think David Ellison is ideologically inclined. Maybe he will see something outrageous on TikTok that he doesn\u2019t like and say, \u201cHey, Dad, could you bring that down?\u201d I don\u2019t even know if his dad has the capacity to bring something down. You know, TikTok is a black box. We don\u2019t actually know how the algorithm works, who actually controls it, and who can steer it.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>The potential for TikTok content to end up on whatever this new Paramount HBO streaming service is high.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>I know the other big media companies have long looked at the user-generated content platforms and been envious of their cost structure. YouTube barely pays any money for its content, and it\u2019s destroying this industry.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">YouTube pays the most. YouTube pays 55 percent. Everyone else pays zero percent.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Right. But for an average creator on YouTube, you\u2019re getting nothing, effectively.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I\u2019m just saying it is a great business model, and the Reels and TikTok business models are much better than the YouTube one because they pay zero percent for content.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>There\u2019s something there. Like, Disney has made some noise about putting creator videos in Disney+. They\u2019ve all looked at it. They\u2019ve all talked about it. This one seems easy, right? It\u2019s HBO Max plus your favorite commentary about whatever HBO Max show you\u2019re watching, sourced directly from TikTok, right here. We\u2019re all gonna integrate it. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Maybe this is way harder than I\u2019m making it sound.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I think they all believe that\u2026 They all move in herds, right? All these companies always do. We\u2019re all doing vertical video now. And you\u2019re like, well, vertical video, yes, people like the format. What they really like is unlimited free content. Which, again, TikTok doesn\u2019t pay anything for.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">So you, Paramount, or you, Peacock, or you, Disney, you are not in the business of getting free content from people. You are still paying for stuff, and also you care about your brand still, so you don\u2019t wanna just have a platform where anyone can watch anything. And I think that is kind of the fundamental question for all these media companies.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">You\u2019re not platforms. The dominant media companies are platforms. Can you turn yourself into a platform? Should you turn yourself into a platform? Should you just say, \u201cNope, what we make is super high-quality, specific stuff that people value as a brand, and maybe that\u2019s just gonna be our place, and we\u2019re not gonna compete with the YouTubes of the world\u201d?<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Netflix seems to be going in that direction. They\u2019re gonna be more platform-y. I do think you\u2019ll probably see not just Paramount, but every company try to say, \u201cOh, we\u2019re a platform, too.\u201d I don\u2019t think it will be successful, though<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Do you foresee a tighter connection between Skydance and TikTok? These are all companies operated by a family. They\u2019re not close right now. They could get closer.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I don\u2019t know that TikTok cares, right? TikTok, which is still really run by ByteDance, I don\u2019t know that they care about making Larry Ellison that much happier. I don\u2019t think that\u2019s the direction of travel here.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>I\u2019m only curious because I\u2019m watching Meta just relentlessly promote Muse, its AI agent, across all of its platforms. OpenAI launches Dots, and where do they go to buy ads? They go buy ads on Meta platforms. And like, this is a<\/strong> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/1007408\/meta-muse-openai-dots-ai-agent-race-privacy-free\"><strong>massive structural advantage for Meta<\/strong><\/a><strong>, right? They are not buying their own ad space.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>And if I ran a movie studio and I had to put out 30 movies per year and pay to market them to try to get these kids to go to a theater, I\u2019d be like, \u201cBoy, I could really use that TikTok juice.\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Do you know who\u2019s winning the microdrama wars in the US? I don\u2019t know if you\u2019ve paid attention to microdramas yet, but they are what they sound like.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/entertainment\/1003297\/microdramas-neighbours-epis-roseberry-reelshort-dramabox-vertical-video\"><strong>Oh yes<\/strong><\/a><strong>.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Meta. Meta is not in the microdrama business. Meta is in the \u201cOh, you wanna advertise microdramas? Come talk to us.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">So they are getting all of the microdrama money right now. It\u2019s a great place to be if you\u2019re, if you\u2019re Meta. And by the way, the microdrama companies are uploading their content to Meta as ads, so Meta both gets paid for the advertising and then has free engaging content that it can show its users. It\u2019s a great place to be.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>If only Meta cared about its actual businesses instead of trying to win in AI agents. The amount that they would succeed would be out of control. That\u2019s another episode of the show. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Let me end with the conspiracy theory that I brought up at the beginning. There was a bidding process. David Zaslav\u2019s initial plan was to split Discovery into two, to sell the cable networks to whoever was dumb enough to buy them. Netflix really wanted Warner, and they bid. They were actually the announced winners until David Ellison did his regulatory arbitrage.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">They <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/news\/838781\/netflix-warner-bros-discover-bids-buyout\">won the deal<\/a> in December of last year. They <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/streaming\/885691\/warner-bros-says-paramounts-latest-offer-is-superior-to-its-current-deal-with-netflix\">gave up on it<\/a> in February of this year. So they won for a couple of months.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>David is very good at just kicking the door back open. He made it happen.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">As Logan Roy said, \u201cCongratulations on saying the biggest number.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>No one has succeeded in buying Warner. You could argue that Netflix did nothing but make the price so high that it was unsustainable, that they had to create massive amounts of leverage on this deal, pay an unsustainable amount of debt. And at the end of this all, Ted Sarandos is gonna be standing there waiting to buy, yet again, the distressed assets of Warner Bros. at a fire-sale price.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Do you think that\u2019s likely?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I think Netflix, and other people as well, will definitely be in the business of, \u201cOh, Ynon Kreiz fired you? Ynon Kreiz told you you couldn\u2019t make your movie or television show? Come talk to us.\u201d Which, by the way, a lot of other companies were doing to Netflix back in 2022 when Netflix went through its retrenchment.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">So I think that is likely but also standard, right? You just have this turmoil. You have a standard thing in any media company of, \u201cOh, this project this other guy brought in, we\u2019re not doing that anymore. That was a failure. We\u2019re doing new stuff. And oh, by the way, if the last guy\u2019s project turns out to be successful, we\u2019ll take credit for that. But we\u2019re gonna bring in new stuff.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I don\u2019t think Ted Sarandos was playing 3D\/4D chess here. I think they thought this was a good idea. But I think the much more obvious answer is Wall Street hated the idea. Wall Street kept telling Netflix, \u201cWe hate this. We hate this. Please don\u2019t spend $80 billion on this. And also, by the way, you\u2019re gonna have a tough time getting this through regulation.\u201d And I think Ted Sarandos eventually said, \u201cOkay, you\u2019re right.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I\u2019ve seen him speak publicly about this and in other venues. He seems quite upset about the fact that he didn\u2019t get this deal. I think there are also feelings involved here. But I don\u2019t think this was all a master plan on their part.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I think they went for it. They didn\u2019t get it. They\u2019re bummed out. They\u2019re gonna move on.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>I think an angry, aggressive Netflix might actually be the best thing that could happen to Hollywood right now, because they were headed towards their own vertical video slop fest, and maybe now they\u2019re not going to do that.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I think that\u2019s the question for \u2014 I mean, it\u2019s a question for everybody. But for Netflix, it\u2019s: you guys have been super successful for a couple of decades by doing one thing. Well, initially you were doing DVD by mail, then you went to streaming, and that\u2019s all you did. And you didn\u2019t ever sell movies. You didn\u2019t do a la carte stuff. You didn\u2019t do advertising. You didn\u2019t do sports.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Now you do advertising. Now you do sports. Now you\u2019re doing games. Now you\u2019re doing podcasts. Maybe you\u2019re gonna integrate with other kinds of TV stuff. And so this laser focus that Netflix had, which proved very successful, they are moving away from. They may have to move away from it. They may have sort of reached the limit of that growth.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">But it gets trickier and trickier the more things you add to that stack to make sure you\u2019re doing a good job. And I think that is the real challenge for them.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>We\u2019ve been at it for about 45 minutes. I still don\u2019t know how David Ellison is gonna make one more dollar than he made last year. Have you come to any conclusions?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">We\u2019re recording this Tuesday morning. Tuesday night, like at 7:30? I don\u2019t know why they\u2019re doing it at 7:30 or 8:30. They\u2019re gonna have <a href=\"https:\/\/deadline.com\/2026\/10\/skydance-ceo-press-conference-post-merger-david-ellison-1237148751\/\">a press conference<\/a>, the first Skydance press conference. So if we re-record this on Wednesday, maybe all this will be answered, but maybe it won\u2019t be answered.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Well, Ynon will be there. He\u2019ll be there wielding his scythe.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">It\u2019s gonna be interesting because he is not gonna be a high-profile person, but I think a lot of people are gonna learn his name anyway. And this is a thing that Hollywood does, right? You find a person to blame for your troubles.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Sometimes it\u2019s a company like Netflix, sometimes it\u2019s an evil Jason Kilar. Remember when he was running WarnerMedia for a minute or two? And everyone said, \u201cYou\u2019re wrecking the business. Thank God we have David Zaslav, who\u2019s an authentic media guy to come in and save us.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">And then, you know, six months later, David Zaslav\u2019s name is an epithet. Presumably there\u2019ll be a new epithet associated with this company.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Yeah. Well, this deal is gonna wind its way through. We\u2019re gonna check in on it a lot. We\u2019re gonna have you back, Peter. Thank you so much for being on<\/strong> <strong><em>Decoder<\/em><\/strong><strong>.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _18mzr4ba _19wv7tc1\">See you, Nilay. <span class=\"nowrap\">Thanks.<span class=\"endmark\"><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"tly2fw0\"><span class=\"tly2fw2\"><strong>Follow topics and authors<\/strong> from this story to see more like this in your personalized homepage feed and to receive email updates.<\/span><\/p>\n<ul class=\"tly2fw3\">\n<li id=\"follow-author-article_footer-dmcyOmF1dGhvclByb2ZpbGU6NjAx\"><span aria-expanded=\"false\" role=\"button\" tabindex=\"0\"><span class=\"gnx4pm0 _1618ekm2 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This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google<!-- --> <a href=\"https:\/\/policies.google.com\/privacy\" class=\"_3d9k251p\">Privacy Policy<\/a> <!-- -->and<!-- --> <a href=\"https:\/\/policies.google.com\/terms\" class=\"_3d9k251p\">Terms of Service<\/a> <!-- -->apply.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--ad--native-ad-rail _14xz0mvb hidden noh1q18 noh1q12\" data-native-ad-id=\"container\">\n<div>\n<div class=\"visually-hidden\">\n<div class=\"dynamic-native-ad-native_ad_latest\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/\" aria-label=\"Native Ad Placement\"><\/p>\n<div class=\"_14xz0mv0\">\n<div class=\"_14xz0mvc\"><span data-native-ad-id=\"preamble\" class=\"_14xz0mv8\">Advertiser Content From<\/span><\/p>\n<div class=\"_14xz0mvh\"><img data-native-ad-id=\"sponsored_logo\" src alt=\"Sponsor Logo\" class=\"_14xz0mvg\"><\/div>\n<p class=\"_14xz0mvj\" data-native-ad-id=\"title\">This is the title for the native ad<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_14xz0mvd\">\n<div class=\"_14xz0mve\"><img data-native-ad-id=\"thumbnail\" src alt=\"Sponsor thumbnail\" class=\"_14xz0mvf\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p><\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"noh1q12 noh1q18\">\n<div class=\"o1ls922 o1ls90 o1ls92i\">\n<div class=\"o1ls90 o1ls923\" data-concert=\"btf_medium_rectangle_variable\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p><!--\/$--><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/article>\n<p><!--$--><\/p>\n<div class=\"duet--layout--article-recirc-color-container e3czlx0\">\n<div class=\"duet--layout--article-recirc e3czlx1 _1044qiz3\">\n<div class=\"e3czlx3\">\n<div class=\"e3czlx4\">\n<div class=\"duet--layout--header-pattern _75r1tr2\">\n<div class=\"_75r1tr3\">\n<div class=\"duet--layout--page-header bpecqn0\">\n<div class=\"bpecqnj bpecqnf\">\n<h2 class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup bpecqno bpecqnm _19wv7tc2\">More in <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\">Podcasts<\/a><\/h2>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"sticky-nav-trigger\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_75r1tr4\">\n<div>\n<div class=\"_1hofmaw0\">\n<div class>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card up4voo1 up4voo0 _7uluu53\">\n<div class=\"up4voo8 up4voo7 up4voop up4vooa _1cnxcye3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"The AI is in the computer\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/10\/VRG_VST_100926_Site.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"up4voo6\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd7 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54 _7uluu55\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/1008707\/amazon-alexa-tablet-googlebooks-apple-vergecast\">The AI is in the computer<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card up4voo1 up4voo0 _7uluu53\">\n<div class=\"up4voo8 up4voo7 up4voop up4vooa _1cnxcye3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Can you trust Meta\u2019s Muse or OpenAI\u2019s Dots to run your life?\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/10\/DCD_AI_Agents.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1cnxcye1 _1cnxcye4\"><title>Play<\/title><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"up4voo6\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd7 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54 _7uluu55\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/1007408\/meta-muse-openai-dots-ai-agent-race-privacy-free\">Can you trust Meta\u2019s Muse or OpenAI\u2019s Dots to run your life?<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card up4voo1 up4voo0 _7uluu53\">\n<div class=\"up4voo8 up4voo7 up4voop up4vooa _1cnxcye3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Sen. Adam Schiff on AI regulation, free speech, and impeaching Trump one more time\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/10\/DCD_2026-10-05_Schiff.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1cnxcye1 _1cnxcye4\"><title>Play<\/title><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"up4voo6\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd7 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54 _7uluu55\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/1004286\/senator-adam-schiff-ai-trump-regulation-corruption\">Sen. Adam Schiff on AI regulation, free speech, and impeaching Trump one more time<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card up4voo1 up4voo0 _7uluu53\">\n<div class=\"up4voo8 up4voo7 up4voop up4vooa _1cnxcye3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"The forgotten Chromebook that started it all\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/10\/VRG_VRH_Chromebook_Site.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0.36764705882353%2C0%2C99.264705882353%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1cnxcye1 _1cnxcye4\"><title>Play<\/title><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"up4voo6\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd7 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54 _7uluu55\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/1001215\/the-forgotten-chromebook-that-started-it-all\">The forgotten Chromebook that started it all<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card up4voo1 up4voo0 _7uluu53\">\n<div class=\"up4voo8 up4voo7 up4voop up4vooa _1cnxcye3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Dots get up in Muse\u2019s business\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/10\/VRG_VST_100227_Site.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"up4voo6\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd7 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54 _7uluu55\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/1004059\/openai-dots-kindle-homepad-cybercab-vergecast\">Dots get up in Muse\u2019s business<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card up4voo1 up4voo0 _7uluu53\">\n<div class=\"up4voo8 up4voo7 up4voop up4vooa _1cnxcye3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Inside our months-long investigation into Kevin O\u2019Leary\u2019s Utah data center debacle\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/10\/DCD_1001_Oleary.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1cnxcye1 _1cnxcye4\"><title>Play<\/title><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"up4voo6\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd7 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54 _7uluu55\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/1002851\/utah-ai-data-center-stratos-kevin-oleary-investigation-backlash\">Inside our months-long investigation into Kevin O\u2019Leary\u2019s Utah data center debacle<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_1hofmaw2\">\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj1 _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqjj _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqj7 _1ismqj6 _1ismqjc _1ismqjh _1cnxcye3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"The AI is in the computer\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjf i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/10\/VRG_VST_100926_Site.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=16.666666666667%2C0%2C66.666666666667%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"The AI is in the computer\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjg i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/10\/VRG_VST_100926_Site.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd3 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/1008707\/amazon-alexa-tablet-googlebooks-apple-vergecast\">The AI is in the computer<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"jelpeph jelpepd jelpep0\"><span><span class=\"_1g89o322 _1g89o321 _19wv7tc5\"><span><span>David Pierce<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw2 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5 _1044qizs\"><time datetime=\"2026-10-09T15:10:12+00:00\">Oct 9<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj1 _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqj7 _1ismqj6 _1ismqjc _1ismqjh _1cnxcye3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Can you trust Meta\u2019s Muse or OpenAI\u2019s Dots to run your life?\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjf i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/10\/DCD_AI_Agents.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=16.666666666667%2C0%2C66.666666666667%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Can you trust Meta\u2019s Muse or OpenAI\u2019s Dots to run your life?\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjg i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/10\/DCD_AI_Agents.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1cnxcye1 _1cnxcye4\"><title>Play<\/title><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd3 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/1007408\/meta-muse-openai-dots-ai-agent-race-privacy-free\">Can you trust Meta\u2019s Muse or OpenAI\u2019s Dots to run your life?<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"jelpeph jelpepd jelpep0\"><span><span class=\"_1g89o322 _1g89o321 _19wv7tc5\"><span><span>Nilay Patel<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw2 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5 _1044qizs\"><time datetime=\"2026-10-08T14:00:00+00:00\">Oct 8<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj1 _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqj7 _1ismqj6 _1ismqjc _1ismqjh _1cnxcye3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Sen. Adam Schiff on AI regulation, free speech, and impeaching Trump one more time\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjf i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/10\/DCD_2026-10-05_Schiff.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=16.666666666667%2C0%2C66.666666666667%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Sen. Adam Schiff on AI regulation, free speech, and impeaching Trump one more time\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjg i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/10\/DCD_2026-10-05_Schiff.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1cnxcye1 _1cnxcye4\"><title>Play<\/title><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd3 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/1004286\/senator-adam-schiff-ai-trump-regulation-corruption\">Sen. Adam Schiff on AI regulation, free speech, and impeaching Trump one more time<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"jelpeph jelpepd jelpep0\"><span><span class=\"_1g89o322 _1g89o321 _19wv7tc5\"><span><span>Nilay Patel<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw2 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5 _1044qizs\"><time datetime=\"2026-10-05T14:30:00+00:00\">Oct 5<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj1 _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqj7 _1ismqj6 _1ismqjc _1ismqjh _1cnxcye3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"The forgotten Chromebook that started it all\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjf i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/10\/VRG_VRH_Chromebook_Site.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=16.911764705882%2C0%2C66.176470588235%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"The forgotten Chromebook that started it all\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjg i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/10\/VRG_VRH_Chromebook_Site.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0.36764705882353%2C0%2C99.264705882353%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1cnxcye1 _1cnxcye4\"><title>Play<\/title><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd3 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/1001215\/the-forgotten-chromebook-that-started-it-all\">The forgotten Chromebook that started it all<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"jelpeph jelpepd jelpep0\"><span><span class=\"_1g89o322 _1g89o321 _19wv7tc5\"><span><span>Verge Staff<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw2 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5 _1044qizs\"><time datetime=\"2026-10-04T12:00:00+00:00\">Oct 4<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj1 _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqj7 _1ismqj6 _1ismqjc _1ismqjh _1cnxcye3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Dots get up in Muse\u2019s business\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjf i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/10\/VRG_VST_100227_Site.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=16.666666666667%2C0%2C66.666666666667%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Dots get up in Muse\u2019s business\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjg i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/10\/VRG_VST_100227_Site.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd3 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/1004059\/openai-dots-kindle-homepad-cybercab-vergecast\">Dots get up in Muse\u2019s business<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"jelpeph jelpepd jelpep0\"><span><span class=\"_1g89o322 _1g89o321 _19wv7tc5\"><span><span>Jacob Kastrenakes<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw2 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5 _1044qizs\"><time datetime=\"2026-10-02T15:47:05+00:00\">Oct 2<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj1 _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqjk _1ismqjl _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqj7 _1ismqj6 _1ismqjc _1ismqjh _1cnxcye3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Inside our months-long investigation into Kevin O\u2019Leary\u2019s Utah data center debacle\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjf i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/10\/DCD_1001_Oleary.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=16.666666666667%2C0%2C66.666666666667%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Inside our months-long investigation into Kevin O\u2019Leary\u2019s Utah data center debacle\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjg i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/10\/DCD_1001_Oleary.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1cnxcye1 _1cnxcye4\"><title>Play<\/title><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd3 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/1002851\/utah-ai-data-center-stratos-kevin-oleary-investigation-backlash\">Inside our months-long investigation into Kevin O\u2019Leary\u2019s Utah data center debacle<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"jelpeph jelpepd jelpep0\"><span><span class=\"_1g89o322 _1g89o321 _19wv7tc5\"><span><span>Nilay Patel<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw2 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5 _1044qizs\"><time datetime=\"2026-10-01T14:00:00+00:00\">Oct 1<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--ad--native-ad-linkset _14xz0mv4 _14xz0mv5 _14xz0mva hidden\" data-native-ad-id=\"container\">\n<div>\n<div class=\"visually-hidden\">\n<div class=\"dynamic-native-ad-native_ad_linkset_link\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/\" aria-label=\"Advertisement\"><\/p>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"_14xz0mv7\"><span data-native-ad-id=\"preamble\" class=\"_14xz0mv8 _14xz0mv9\">Advertiser Content From<\/span><\/p>\n<div><img data-native-ad-id=\"logo\" src alt=\"Sponsor Logo\" class=\"_14xz0mvg\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p class=\"_14xz0mvj\" data-native-ad-id=\"title\">This is the title for the native ad<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<p><\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"e3czlx6\">\n<div class=\"duet--layout--header-pattern _75r1tr2\">\n<div class=\"_75r1tr3\">\n<div class=\"duet--layout--page-header bpecqn0\">\n<div class=\"bpecqnj bpecqnf\">\n<h2 class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup bpecqno bpecqnm _19wv7tc2\">Top Stories<\/h2>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"sticky-nav-trigger\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_75r1tr4\">\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj4 _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqjj _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"jelpep7 jelpep4 jelpep0\"><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw8 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5\"><time datetime=\"2026-10-10T13:00:00+00:00\">An hour ago<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd7 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54 _7uluu55\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/ai-artificial-intelligence\/1009051\/privacy-ai-agent-promises-openai-meta-muse-dots\">AI agent makers are promising privacy \u2014 will they deliver?<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj4 _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"jelpep7 jelpep4 jelpep0\"><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw8 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5\"><time datetime=\"2026-10-10T07:00:00+00:00\">7:00 AM UTC<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd7 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54 _7uluu55\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/gadgets\/1007674\/smart-bird-feeders-attact-pests-too\">My brief romance with an AI bird feeder<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj4 _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"jelpep7 jelpep4 jelpep0\"><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw8 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5\"><time datetime=\"2026-10-10T11:00:00+00:00\">11:00 AM UTC<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd7 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54 _7uluu55\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/transportation\/1005502\/telo-mt1-review-ev-tiny-truck\">The Telo MT1 is a big truck trapped in a tiny truck\u2019s body<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj4 _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"jelpep7 jelpep4 jelpep0\"><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw8 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5\"><time datetime=\"2026-10-10T11:00:00+00:00\">11:00 AM UTC<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd7 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54 _7uluu55\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/entertainment\/1008748\/fjord-cristian-mungiu-interview\">The director of Fjord takes the \u2018risky position\u2019 of moderator<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj4 _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqjk _1ismqjl _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"jelpep7 jelpep4 jelpep0\"><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw8 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5\"><time datetime=\"2026-10-09T19:09:44+00:00\">Oct 9<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd7 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54 _7uluu55\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/ai-artificial-intelligence\/1008726\/openai-mathematics-solutions-chaos\">\u2018Pure insanity\u2019: Mathematicians will need years to make sense of OpenAI\u2019s latest drop<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p><!--\/$--><\/div>\n<p><\/main><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Podcasts Close Podcasts Posts from this topic will be added to your daily email digest and your homepage feed. 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