{"id":2114624,"date":"2026-08-27T14:00:00","date_gmt":"2026-08-27T11:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/?p=2114624"},"modified":"2026-08-27T14:00:00","modified_gmt":"2026-08-27T11:00:00","slug":"openais-executive-exodus-has-one-big-winner","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/?p=2114624","title":{"rendered":"OpenAI\u2019s executive exodus has one big winner"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><main id=\"content\"><\/p>\n<div class>\n<article>\n<div class=\"duet--article--lede duet--page-layout--feature-article _1se63890\">\n<div class=\"duet--ledes--feature-lede _1m5y14k0\">\n<div class=\"_1m5y14k1\">\n<div class=\"_1m5y14k6 _1m5y14k7\">\n<div class=\"_1xtd7xb5 _1xtd7xb4\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_1044qiz7\">\n<div class=\"_1m5y14k2 _1044qiz3\">\n<div class=\"_1m5y14k3\">\n<div class=\"_5s9d1e0 _5s9d1e2\">\n<div class=\"_5s9d1e3\"><span class=\"_29pwo217\"><\/p>\n<ul class=\"_1phh1th0\">\n<li>\n<div 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-->Podcasts<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/aside>\n<\/div>\n<\/li>\n<li>\n<div id=\"follow-category-breadcrumb-dmcyOmNhdGVnb3J5OjEwMg==\"><button aria-expanded=\"false\" aria-haspopup=\"true\"><span class=\"gnx4pm0 _1uf8q815 _19wv7tc5 _1618ekm0\"><span class=\"_1ajq89ka _1ajq89k1 _1ajq89k0\"><\/span><span class=\"_1618ekm9\">AI<\/span><\/span><\/button><\/p>\n<aside id=\"popover-dmcyOmNhdGVnb3J5OjEwMg==-breadcrumb\" style=\"position:absolute;left:0;top:0;visibility:hidden\" class=\"_1wu3rm0 _1se63890\" aria-hidden=\"true\">\n<div class=\"_1wu3rm1\"><button class=\"_1wu3rm3\"><title>Close<\/title><\/button><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1wu3rm5\">AI<\/div>\n<p class=\"fv263x1\">Posts from this topic will be added to your daily email digest and your homepage feed.<\/p>\n<p><button class=\"duet--cta--button _11kb06m1 _11kb06m0 fv263x2 _11kb06mg\"><span><title>Follow<\/title><\/span><span>Follow<\/span><\/button><\/p>\n<p class=\"fv263x4\"><a class=\"fv263x5\" 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class=\"fv263x4\"><a class=\"fv263x5\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/business\">See All <!-- -->Business<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/aside>\n<\/div>\n<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><\/span><\/div>\n<div class>\n<h1 class=\"cbn62f2 cbn62f0 cbn62f7 _19wv7tcb _19wv7tc9\">OpenAI\u2019s executive exodus has one big winner<\/h1>\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup cbn62fi cbn62fg _19wv7tcb _19wv7tc1\">The Verge\u2019s Hayden Field on how OpenAI president Greg Brockman has consolidated power as Sam Altman\u2019s second-in-command.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_29pwo22 _29pwo20 _29pwo221\">\n<div class=\"_29pwo29 _29pwo2h\">\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-byline _19wv7tcb _1p3b6390\"><span class><span>by<\/span> <!-- --> <span aria-expanded=\"false\" role=\"button\" tabindex=\"0\"><span id=\"follow-author-author_byline_lead-dmcyOmF1dGhvclByb2ZpbGU6NjAx\" class=\"t0jcdf0 gnx4pm0 _1p3b6392 _1p3b6394 t0jcdf1\"><span class=\"t0jcdf2\"><span class=\"_1ajq89ka _1ajq89k1 _1ajq89k0\"><\/span><\/span><span>Nilay Patel<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<aside id=\"popover-dmcyOmF1dGhvclByb2ZpbGU6NjAx-author_byline_lead\" style=\"position:absolute;left:0;top:0;visibility:hidden\" class=\"_1wu3rm0 _1se63890\" aria-hidden=\"true\">\n<div class=\"_1wu3rm1\"><button class=\"_1wu3rm3\"><title>Close<\/title><\/button><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1bw37384\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Nilay Patel\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1bw37385 i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/chorus\/author_profile_images\/195834\/NILAY_PATEL.0.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"_1wu3rm5 _1bw37380\">Nilay Patel<\/div>\n<div class=\"_1bw37381\">\n<div class=\"_1bw37382\">Editor-in-Chief<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p class=\"fv263x1\">Posts from this author will be added to your daily email digest and your homepage feed.<\/p>\n<p><button class=\"duet--cta--button _11kb06m1 _11kb06m0 fv263x2 _11kb06mg\"><span><title>Follow<\/title><\/span><span>Follow<\/span><\/button><\/p>\n<p class=\"fv263x4\"><a class=\"fv263x5\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/authors\/nilay-patel\">See All by <!-- -->Nilay Patel<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/aside>\n<p><\/span><\/div>\n<p><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw6 g4xafw1 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5 _19wv7tcb\"><time datetime=\"2026-08-27T14:00:00+00:00\">Aug 27, 2026, 2:00 PM UTC<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"_29pwo2m _29pwo2w\">\n<div class=\"_29pwo2x _29pwo215\"><span class=\"_29pwo216 _29pwo217\"><\/p>\n<ul class=\"duet--article--share-buttons _1e9wo7z0\">\n<li>\n<div class=\"_1e9wo7zo\"><button aria-label=\"Copy link\" class=\"_1e9wo7z3 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id=\"follow-author-standard_article_details-dmcyOmF1dGhvclByb2ZpbGU6NjAx\" class=\"t0jcdf0 gnx4pm0 _1p3b6392 _1p3b6393 t0jcdf1\"><span class=\"t0jcdf2\"><span class=\"_1ajq89k1 _1ajq89k0\"><\/span><\/span><span>Nilay Patel<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<aside id=\"popover-dmcyOmF1dGhvclByb2ZpbGU6NjAx-standard_article_details\" style=\"position:absolute;left:0;top:0;visibility:hidden\" class=\"_1wu3rm0 _1se63890\" aria-hidden=\"true\">\n<div class=\"_1wu3rm1\"><button class=\"_1wu3rm3\"><title>Close<\/title><\/button><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1bw37384\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Nilay Patel\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1bw37385 i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/chorus\/author_profile_images\/195834\/NILAY_PATEL.0.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"_1wu3rm5 _1bw37380\">Nilay Patel<\/div>\n<div class=\"_1bw37381\"><\/div>\n<p class=\"fv263x1\">Posts from this author will be added to your daily email digest and your homepage feed.<\/p>\n<p><button class=\"duet--cta--button _11kb06m1 _11kb06m0 fv263x2 _11kb06mg\"><span><title>Follow<\/title><\/span><span>Follow<\/span><\/button><\/p>\n<p class=\"fv263x4\"><a class=\"fv263x5\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/authors\/nilay-patel\">See All by <!-- -->Nilay Patel<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/aside>\n<p> <span class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup _4aoxp37\">is editor-in-chief of The Verge, host of the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/decoder-podcast-with-nilay-patel\"><b>Decoder podcast<\/b><\/a>, and co-host of <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/the-vergecast\"><b>The Vergecast<\/b><\/a>.<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div id=\"zephr-anchor\" class=\"_1044qiz13\">\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b2 _18mzr4b0 _18mzr4b7 _18mzr4b5 _19wv7tc1 _18mzr4bb\">Today on <em>Decoder, <\/em>I\u2019m talking to <em>Verge<\/em> senior AI reporter Hayden Field about some pure <em>Decoder<\/em> bait: the seemingly-endless org chart changes at OpenAI, and how all of them seem to consolidate power under cofounder Greg Brockman, the company\u2019s president.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">While Sam Altman is the CEO and still OpenAI\u2019s most public face, Brockman has amassed enormous power and influence within the top ranks of the company as other senior leaders have left in rapid succession these past few months.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--block-placement _1xorkac2 _1xorkac0 duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<div class=\"duet--article--highlight _1044qizl _1upt4f20\">\n<div class=\"_1upt4f21\"><\/div>\n<div>\n<div style=\"position:relative\">\n<div class>\n<div class>\n<div style=\"background-image:none\" class=\"duet--media--content-warning _1k8kvzd0\">\n<div class=\"duet--article--image-gallery-image _1pegheu0\" style=\"aspect-ratio:1\" id=\"dmcyOmltYWdlOjU5NQ==\"><a class=\"_1pegheu1\" href=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/chorus\/uploads\/chorus_asset\/file\/24792604\/The_Verge_Decoder_Tileart.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0,0,100,100\" data-pswp-height=\"3000\" data-pswp-width=\"3000\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/chorus\/uploads\/chorus_asset\/file\/24792604\/The_Verge_Decoder_Tileart.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_1upt4f24\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1 _1upt4f27\"><em>Verge<\/em> subscribers, don\u2019t forget you get exclusive access to ad-free <em>Decoder<\/em> wherever you get your podcasts. Head <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/account\/podcasts\">here<\/a>. Not a subscriber? You can <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/subscribe\">sign up here<\/a>.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Brockman now oversees the company\u2019s entire consumer and enterprise product teams, including ChatGPT, Codex, and its major infrastructure build out. As Hayden <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/ai-artificial-intelligence\/982774\/greg-brockman-openai-role-expansion\">recently reported<\/a>, he is effectively now the day-to-day operational leader of OpenAI.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">This will have major effects on OpenAI as a company and its product strategy, at a time when it continues to cede ground to Anthropic in the enterprise and is preparing for a historic IPO. This is all against the backdrop of needing to turn a profit in the next few years and the company\u2019s huge ambitions to replace both Google Search and the iPhone in the consumer market.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">So I wanted Hayden to break down for me what\u2019s going on at OpenAI, and the increasingly important role Greg Brockman will play in its future.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Okay: <em>Verge<\/em> senior AI reporter Hayden Field on Greg Brockman\u2019s consolidation of power at OpenAI. Here we go.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--block-placement _1xorkac1 _1xorkac0 duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup _1h0hdr20\">\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><em>This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity. <\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Hayden Field, you\u2019re <\/strong><strong><em>The Verge<\/em><\/strong><strong>\u2019s senior AI reporter. Welcome back to <\/strong><strong><em>Decoder<\/em><\/strong><strong>.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Thanks. It\u2019s great to be here.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Always, always chaos when you\u2019re here, Hayden.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Absolutely. There\u2019s never a calm week. If there\u2019s a calm week coming up, I know something even crazier is coming the next week.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>We should just rename the show <\/strong><strong><em>The Real Housewives of AI<\/em><\/strong><strong>.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><em>[Laughs]<\/em> Honestly, that would be fitting.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Straight up, that\u2019s what we should do. A lot of personalities, a lot of feelings, a lot of relationships that people have really come to value over a long period of time.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">And a lot of lore. A lot of lore that goes between all these people for years and years and years. It\u2019s crazy. And now they\u2019re even putting out profiles on some of their spouses. The circles and the people themselves are really interesting.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Today the drama is about OpenAI and specifically Greg Brockman, who seems to be consolidating even more power at OpenAI. You just <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/ai-artificial-intelligence\/982774\/greg-brockman-openai-role-expansion\"><strong>wrote a long story about this<\/strong><\/a><strong>. It seems very clear that Greg is emerging as the central decision maker at OpenAI. Describe what\u2019s going on.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Greg has obviously been pretty influential at OpenAI for a really long time, but what\u2019s different now is that he has so much control over the day-to-day operations in a way he didn\u2019t before. He was always a cofounder. He was always heavily involved. It was him, Ilya Sutskever, and Sam Altman for a long time, all in these <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/ai-artificial-intelligence\/920775\/evidence-exhibits-elon-musk-sam-altman-openai-trial\">email threads that came out during the <em>Musk v. Altman<\/em> trial<\/a>.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">We saw them all talking about the future of OpenAI, what it should look like, and all their strange dynamics with Elon Musk. But Brockman was in a big-picture role before, and now he\u2019s increasingly taking on so much power in the day-to-day. Altman has been focusing more on the big picture, the IPO stuff, and the direction of the company at large.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Meanwhile, Brockman is amassing all this power day-to-day as other executives leave. He\u2019s been in control now of Codex, of its enterprise business, the consumer side. There are four arms of the company right now and he\u2019s in control of all of them. It\u2019s been really interesting to see how that\u2019s happened over the last few months.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Greg is a character in the AI story. Certainly inside of OpenAI, he\u2019s been a central figure in a lot of the company\u2019s drama over time. So if you\u2019ve been paying attention to the AI industry, you\u2019re familiar with him. But if someone haven\u2019t, explain who Greg is and why he\u2019s such a notable figure both in AI and at OpenAI.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">He has been on my radar for seven years now. He\u2019s been on other people\u2019s for even longer. He dropped out of MIT to join Stripe way back in the day. He was Stripe\u2019s CTO during its really early explosive growth phase. He left in 2015 to cofound OpenAI. That\u2019s how he came on the AI radar.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Ever since then, he\u2019s been a really influential figure. He, Ilya Sutskever, and Sam Altman were all heavily involved in the drama with Elon Musk really early on, raising money, trying to lure people over to OpenAI, hire top talent, and figure out who was going to control AGI in the event they ever made it. There\u2019s a lot going on there. In the years following, Mira Murati joined and Brockman, Sutskever, Murati, and Altman became the four main players here.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">These were the most talked-about people at OpenAI. You saw them in the headlines the most. They had the most power at the company. And then when the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/2023\/11\/17\/23965982\/openai-ceo-sam-altman-fired\">board coup happened in 2023<\/a>, that\u2019s when Brockman flew onto the scene in a new way. He had been behind the scenes a little bit, under the radar. He was not really doing that many public interviews. I interviewed him in 2020, but it\u2019s not like he was a talking head. You weren\u2019t seeing that much of him unless you were really watching the company and the industry.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">But when Sam Altman got fired by the board, Brockman was so incensed that <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/2023\/11\/17\/23966277\/openai-co-founder-greg-brockman-leaving\">he quit immediately<\/a>. He and Altman were going to start their own thing, or were potentially going to <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/2023\/11\/20\/23968829\/microsoft-hires-sam-altman-greg-brockman-employees-openai\">lead a department at Microsoft<\/a>. That\u2019s when he was making waves in a new way because he was hellbent on the drama.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Brockman said, \u201cOkay, if Sam goes, I go.\u201d That\u2019s when he became Sam\u2019s right hand in a new way. Before that, he was just one of the many execs. They were close, but the board coup made them closer than ever. That\u2019s also what made Sam know that he could trust him in a new way and thereby later greenlight him getting more power.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>This was a big bet in the politics of the organization. Mira was going to <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/techcrunch.com\/2023\/11\/17\/who-is-mira-murati-openais-new-interim-ceo\/\"><strong>become the new CEO for five minutes<\/strong><\/a><strong>. Then there was going to be <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/2023\/11\/20\/23968848\/openai-new-ceo-emmett-shear-twitch-co-founder-hiring\"><strong>another new CEO<\/strong><\/a><strong> and it was unclear who would stay and who would go. Justifiably, Altman did not know who he could trust in that moment, except Greg Brockman was ride or die. He said, \u201cI\u2019m leaving. I\u2019m going.\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>The five minutes that they were going to start a new division of Microsoft were some of the most hilarious five minutes in tech history. But Brockman had basically made it clear he was ride or die for Sam. Over time, that bet has paid off. That move has paid off. Even during that board coup moment, it was not clear that Sam would ever come back.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I remember I was backpacking in Patagonia at the time and I didn\u2019t have a laptop, but I wrote six articles on my phone. It was a crazy time. It seemed like Brockman and Altman were going to be fine, but just be on their own. Of course, all the hundreds of employees <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/2023\/11\/20\/23968988\/openai-employees-resignation-letter-microsoft-sam-altman\">signing a letter that they would leave<\/a> if Sam was not reinstated is what got the ball rolling on him coming back and then pulling an <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/2023\/11\/29\/23981848\/sam-altman-back-open-ai-ceo-microsoft-board\">UNO reverse on all the board members<\/a> who had voted to oust him, except one. That was a big moment where he didn\u2019t know who he could trust.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Some of the people who he had trusted the most were the ones who voted for him to be fired. That went a long way with him that Brockman quit as well. Ever since then, we\u2019ve seen Brockman positioned in the public eye a little bit more. He\u2019s been in the press more. This summer is when he really amassed a lot more power after a couple other executives left, and he\u2019s now in control of quite a lot of pillars of the company.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>What\u2019s really striking is, yes, we can talk about 2023 and the board coup and Sam going and coming back and who was going to stay or go then, but actually this year has been more dramatic in terms of executive departures from OpenAI. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Just since April, the list is staggering. I\u2019m just going to run down it: Bill Peebles who ran Sora; Kevin Weil, who was head of product at Instagram and then VP of OpenAI\u2019s science arm; Fidji Simo, who was supposed to be head of product and was at one point the AGI chief, <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/ai-artificial-intelligence\/963738\/openai-fidji-simo-steps-down-ceo-advisor\"><strong>left on health leave<\/strong><\/a><strong> and then just never came back; Kate Rouch, the Chief Marketing Officer; Srinivas Narayanan, the CTO of B2B; Brad Lightcap, who was the former CEO and the head of special projects; and then just recently Denise Dresser, the Chief Revenue Officer, who is an important character if your company\u2019s about to IPO. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>That is a lot of people, and it seems like Brockman just took all of their roles as all of those people left. Is that what\u2019s happening here?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">More or less. Some of them definitely affected his position less than others. For some of them, like CMO Kate Rouch, leaving didn\u2019t really give him that much more power. But what was interesting is Simo, the ex-chief of AI at the company, is the one whose absence left a huge gap for Brockman to fill. He took over a ton of different aspects.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">As you just alluded to, a lot of the people who had just left the company had also recently changed roles. Through one way or another, a lot of these people leaving created a power vacuum that Brockman could then capitalize on. It\u2019s not like he had this master plan of amassing power, but either way, he ended up with a lot of power.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">What is interesting is when Brad Lightcap transitioned roles, for example, one of these other people took over his COO responsibilities. Guess who it was? Dresser. Then she leaves. Now some of those responsibilities fall to Brockman. It didn\u2019t all happen cut and dry, but in one way or another, people switching roles and then leaving the company, he ended up with a ton more power. I can\u2019t even calculate the ratio really of how much power he ended up with.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Now he\u2019s in control \u2014 to give you some context \u2014 of the entire product strategy of the company, which is obviously incredibly important when you\u2019re about to IPO and you\u2019re getting a lot of pressure to turn a profit. He\u2019s in charge of the company\u2019s entire scaling arm, as well as core product and platform; all of consumer, which includes health, commerce, personal finance, ChatGPT, and other consumer-facing stuff; and core infrastructure, ads, data science, and growth. What isn\u2019t he in charge of, really? You know what I mean?<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>I want to talk about Fidji Simo for one more second here. She was the former CEO of Instacart, but before that she was a really high-ranking executive at Meta. She ran the Facebook app. She was in charge of a lot of monetization.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>When she came to OpenAI, it felt like her role was to turn the consumer version of ChatGPT into a product. There were lots and lots of people leaving Meta to go to OpenAI for a while, such that basically we had reported that every all hands at Meta was about, \u201cWhat are you going to do about OpenAI? They\u2019re taking all of our people.\u201d <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>You just saw this exodus of people from Meta going to OpenAI in various ways, led by Fidji Simo, in a moment where it felt like what they wanted to do was take on Google as a big consumer product supported by ads. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>It\u2019s funny, Altman actually copped to that ambition on the David Senra\u2019s show last week \u2014 here he is, giving Peter Thiel credit for saying <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=kG8AoExkX40\"><strong>OpenAI should compete directly with Google<\/strong><\/a><strong>: <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<blockquote class=\"duet--article--blockquote _1lkuyz80 _19wv7tc9\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup _1lkuyz88 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Sam Altman:<\/strong> He\u2019s like, \u2018The power of this is the power of the Google text box, it\u2019s a text box you can type anything into and it does the right thing. Clearly, the empty text box worked for Google so why don\u2019t you just double down on that?\u2019<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>That\u2019s pretty straightforward and that\u2019s what they did. Altman says they went super hard at it \u2014 being the empty text box, taking the Google business model, which is one of the best business models in internet history. That was a big bet, and they hired Fidji Simo to go run that bet. But she left, and that does not seem to be the emphasis anymore. The emphasis is on Codex, on enterprise, on competing with Anthropic. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>What\u2019s left of that? Was that just a misfire and she had the wrong ideas? Is it still the plan? This seems like <\/strong><strong><em>the<\/em><\/strong><strong> question about OpenAI.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Some of it has fallen by the wayside, which we\u2019ve seen for a bunch of stuff that OpenAI has tried in the past year or two. They <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/ai-artificial-intelligence\/895835\/openai-cuts-back-on-side-quests\">vowed to stop doing all their side quests<\/a>, which is ironically something that Simo herself wrote in an internal memo.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Several episodes ago, you were on and we just talked about the <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/news\/836212\/openai-code-red-chatgpt\"><strong>series of code reds at OpenAI<\/strong><\/a><strong>.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Right now they\u2019re focused on the key revenue drivers, which are enterprise and coding. That\u2019s really what they\u2019re all-in on. They\u2019re also, of course, really focused on building a \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/ai-artificial-intelligence\/945683\/chat-is-dead\">super app<\/a>,\u201c which is supposed to incorporate all this stuff together, and making that super app better.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Besides that, they\u2019re trying to cut the fat and operate as a leaner business, which has been helped by some of these executive salaries being cut. They\u2019re trying to look better on their balance sheet when they IPO. There\u2019s a lot of pressure to do that, especially when SpaceX just IPOed at a crazy valuation and Anthropic is apparently gunning to exceed that. We\u2019ll see if that actually happens.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>When they changed Simo\u2019s title from CEO of applications to CEO of AGI deployment, that was the most <\/strong><strong><em>Decoder<\/em><\/strong><strong> thing of all. I looked at their org chart changing and I thought, \u201cThis isn\u2019t going to last.\u201d <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Over and over and over again, they keep reassigning people. And then as you say, they leave and we see one person take over those roles and consolidate power. We\u2019ll come to the IPO in a second, but where is Sam Altman in all of this? It seems like he should be running OpenAI.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">He really likes focusing on the long-term stuff. The events of the last couple of years and all of the lawsuits have shown him that maybe he isn\u2019t supposed to lead direct teams in a huge way. He has a few direct reports, but should he really be involved in the minutiae of the day-to-day operations? Maybe not.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Altman has said before, and in blog posts that the company put out years ago, that this is the trend that they\u2019ve been following. I remember a year or two years ago, the company would put out summer blog posts saying that different C-suite executives\u2019 roles would be changing slightly, and Sam would be focusing a little bit on the longer term, on research. This is just a continuation of that trend, in my opinion. As we know \u2014 and this is a big <em>Decoder<\/em> thing as well \u2014 the more power you have at a company, the higher your title, the less you probably are involved in the actual day-to-day operations, especially at a tech company.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">This is another example of that. Sam has always been interested in the research and the long-term stuff. Brockman is an engineer. He was described really early on at the company as an \u201cengineering workhorse that pushed to build scaled-up systems that would train the AI and make it work.\u201d So he\u2019s always been seen internally by employees as a can-do person. He makes things happen and he has the engineering training that is required to scale a system. So I could see investors being thrilled about this.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I could also see Altman saying, \u201cI know this guy\u2019s in my corner.\u201d Altman already cleaned out the board. He\u2019s surrounded by people that are going to support him. He trusts Brockman. So he says, \u201cI actually don\u2019t really want to be involved in the operational stuff quite as much. I want to be focused on the direction of the company. So you handle that. You\u2019re an extension of me. I can trust you. Go ahead.\u201d That\u2019s what I think is happening here.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>You\u2019ve talked to Brockman before. I\u2019ve met him. He just did a <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=b_44Ra8msls\"><strong>video with our friend Joanna Stern<\/strong><\/a><strong>. You can see he\u2019s pretty direct. He answers the questions. What kind of character do you think he\u2019s going to be as a person who\u2019s operationalizing OpenAI? Is this \u201cget stuff done, make the numbers go up\u201d situation? Or is this more expansive of an approach?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">It\u2019s going to be interesting to see how he handles this much responsibility, especially this many disparate arms of the company. He\u2019s a really can-do person. He has a lot of engineering training. He\u2019s pretty respected within the company, but I do think there\u2019s going to be a lot of natural tension here because consumer, enterprise, health, and personal finance are really, really intense departments that handle data extremely differently. And then you\u2019ve got all the core infrastructure stuff and the behind-the-scenes stuff that makes everything work. We\u2019re going to see a lot of natural tension arise, especially because this company has a limited amount of funds.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Even if it\u2019s a huge number, it\u2019s still limited in some way, especially now compared to a few years ago. They have a limited amount of compute. That\u2019s something that every executive at OpenAI has run into problems with \u2014 allocating the compute. The research side of things says they don\u2019t get enough sometimes, or the product side says they need all of it. It\u2019s going to be really interesting to see how he squares all this, especially as someone who\u2019s probably trying to make everyone happy. He\u2019s not going to be able to, and so he\u2019s going to have to make some hard decisions.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>This brings us to the IPO, because the IPO is where those hard decisions have to pay off. There\u2019s been a lot of talk about OpenAI playing catch-up to Anthropic, particularly in the enterprise and with coding. There was a <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.wsj.com\/tech\/ai\/openais-second-quarter-sales-show-tepid-growth-compared-with-anthropic-5cb42998\"><strong><em>Wall Street Journal<\/em><\/strong><strong> story last week<\/strong><\/a><strong> that said OpenAI\u2019s revenue in Q2 lagged behind Anthropic\u2019s. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Obviously, Anthropic will tell you they\u2019re profitable even though we haven\u2019t actually seen their numbers and we don\u2019t know how they calculate it. You\u2019ve mentioned the IPO several times now. SpaceX just went public. Big IPOs are all the rage. What role is the IPO playing in all these changes? Is it focusing the company down? Is it making that equity pay off? Is it needing to raise more capital? What\u2019s the shape of it?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">It\u2019s absolutely behind a ton of these changes. It is normal to see a lot of changes in the C-suite ahead of an IPO. But some of the sources I spoke to within the industry, who study the way these IPOs typically happen in tech, said that the interesting and unusual thing here is how many C-suite execs left in such a short timeframe, because they know that looks bad for the company.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">It\u2019s one thing if you need to cut salaries, make the balance sheet look a little bit different, make the company leaner. That\u2019s normal. It is an easy way to do that, to not replace someone. We can only speculate how much each of these people\u2019s salaries was. This is an easy way, cut and dry, to help out the balance sheet.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">But doing all of this in this amount of time reminds me of what <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/979370\/google-deepmind-ai-race-lose-jeff-dean-demis-hassabis\">we were talking about last time on <em>Decoder<\/em><\/a> about Google and DeepMind and how maybe Demis Hassabis didn\u2019t leave when Jeff Dean did because they didn\u2019t want to make the company look bad. Now at OpenAI, people are leaving left and right \u2014 sometimes within 24 or 48 hours.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Brad Lightcap, for instance, just got a new job as special projects head. Then <a href=\"https:\/\/www.cnbc.com\/2026\/08\/11\/longtime-openai-executive-brad-lightcap-leaves-as-shakeup-at-ai-lab-continues.html\">a couple months later he\u2019s out<\/a>, even after being at the company for so many years. Part of it\u2019s probably just cashing out. You can make a lot of money if you\u2019re an exec and the company\u2019s about to IPO and you have a lot of stock options. But it is unusual, my sources said, that it\u2019s happening in this short amount of time.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>The IPO is interesting for a number of reasons, but to me, the most clarifying is that OpenAI is up against Anthropic. There are numbers coming out, reported numbers, about Anthropic\u2019s finances that make that company look pretty good. The company hasn\u2019t really challenged them in public. So we have to assume that they\u2019re happy that there\u2019s reporting out there that the numbers look good for them. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>But all of that is enterprise. They\u2019re selling Claude to big enterprises, to the government. It\u2019s effective. Maybe their token prices have high margins. It\u2019s unclear what the internals of Anthropic\u2019s business look like, but the numbers that we can get look pretty good and they support a big IPO.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>There\u2019s a lot of excitement around Anthropic for that reason. That\u2019s Anthropic as an enterprise software provider. That\u2019s their business. It\u2019s a thing it\u2019s focused on. It\u2019s all they do. OpenAI has taken a lot of shots. You\u2019re talking about cost-cutting ahead of an IPO. Are they shutting some things down? Are they closing the aperture on all the things they\u2019re trying to do to compete with Anthropic ahead of this IPO?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">It\u2019s interesting because I\u2019ve seen a slight shift from OpenAI. Earlier this year, the company was saying, \u201cEnterprise and coding. That\u2019s what we\u2019ve got to focus on. We have to make money. We have to compete with Anthropic.\u201d Now, however, ahead of the IPO, OpenAI is getting a little bit of different advice.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Yes, the company needs to focus on those things because obviously that\u2019s where the money is. But now it\u2019s also being told, \u201cYou also have to differentiate yourself from Anthropic. You can\u2019t just be a copy that\u2019s lagging behind. You have to be doing something different.\u201d OpenAI is going to really lean into consumer and hardware as well.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">One attorney told me that for OpenAI to be successful in the public eye and in investors\u2019 eyes, the company needs \u201chardware and consumer products to sell to consumers, and luckily, that\u2019s something that Brockman has experience with.\u201d It\u2019s hard to do everything, but they\u2019ve had to narrow a ton and then slightly widen again and say, \u201cConsumer is what we\u2019re really known for.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">They\u2019re saying, \u201cWe\u2019re the Kleenex of AI right now because of how we\u2019re known in the consumer world.\u201d People say, \u201cI\u2019m going to ask ChatGPT,\u201d or, \u201cI ChatGPT\u2019d it.\u201d And they\u2019re talking about just using AI in general. Maybe they weren\u2019t actually using ChatGPT, but that\u2019s the way they\u2019re referring to things a lot of the time. So OpenAI knows they need to capitalize on that. That\u2019s one way they can be different from Anthropic. Of course, Anthropic also offers that, but they\u2019re much more known for enterprise and that is why they\u2019re making so much money.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">But OpenAI is leaning into hardware. The company has Jony Ive. It has to not cut some of this stuff entirely because then it\u2019s going to look like Mark Zuckerberg with Meta. It can\u2019t go all-in on something and then just completely cut it, or they\u2019re probably worried about being a laughingstock. You have to really cut the true fat, which they did with a lot of their side projects. But as far as consumer, hardware, enterprise, and coding, those are their main bets right now. We\u2019re going to see them really double down on that heading into the IPO.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Come on, Hayden. Aren\u2019t we actually in the metaverse right now? Technically, you and I are in the Metaverse together right this second. It worked.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Absolutely.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>It happened.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Should have made an avatar.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Technically we\u2019re here in our bodies on the internet.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Yep, that\u2019s true.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>What argument can you have except that the metaverse definitely worked and Mark Zuckerberg was super right about all of it? <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>The consumer business is really hard. The scale of the play you need to make the consumer business work is on the order of fully overtaking Google, which seems very challenging. In hardware, you have to replace the iPhone. If you do anything other than replace the iPhone, people still have their iPhones. And then you\u2019re going to lose to Instagram every single time. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Have they said anything about how they plan to do either one of these things? Because replacing Google with a Google-level monetization engine seems very hard. Replacing the iPhone \u2014 even if you have Jony Ive \u2014 such that people don\u2019t still have their iPhones, seems very hard. Neither one of these things has been in any kind of focus for me at least.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Like <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/968787\/apple-openai-trade-secrets-lawsuit-ai-hardware-smartphone-jony-ive\">we talked about last time<\/a>, I really am skeptical. Hardware is hard. I\u2019ve seen way too many companies crash and burn when they try to make an AI hardware device. It\u2019s going to look beautiful because Jony Ive is in charge.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">But as for how useful it\u2019s really going to be, especially in the era of AI populism when there\u2019s a huge backlash against using AI, I don\u2019t know how excited people are going to be on a broad scale to have something visible pinned to them or in their ears or on their table where you can tell they are using AI. It\u2019s going to be really exciting for a subset of people, but for the broader public, Meta\u2019s glasses are still uncool, still being called pervert glasses. With AI hardware, you\u2019ve got a steep hill to climb.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Let\u2019s talk about what happens next with OpenAI, because those are the challenges. What you have now is a new leader who is, as you said, running most of the company. Greg Brockman was <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.cnbc.com\/2026\/08\/17\/openai-brockman-leadership-changes.html\"><strong>just on CNBC last week<\/strong><\/a><strong>. He basically defended the turnover. He said this: <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<blockquote class=\"duet--article--blockquote _1lkuyz80 _19wv7tc9\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup _1lkuyz88 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Greg Brockman:<\/strong> \u201cI\u2019d say fundamentally, we\u2019re a very resilient organization\u2026 If you look over the years, there have been different eras where we have different sets of leaders in place. I\u2019m constant, Sam is a constant. I think that we are stronger because of that resilience and diversity.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>So this might be what Greg Brockman has to say: \u201cAll these people are gone, but I\u2019m still here. Sam\u2019s still here, and the company\u2019s still the same.\u201d Do you think it\u2019s just the thing that he has to say? Or do you think there\u2019s something more real about OpenAI as a company, where you have these two leaders who are clearly ride or die for each other and you can swap in and out all these other executives and the company will still have its own unique vision?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">He would like us to think the latter, but it\u2019s more of the former. It\u2019s never good when you have a bunch of people leaving at once. It\u2019s never good when you\u2019re constantly restructuring or reorganizing the company. It\u2019s bad all the way down. Employees are probably feeling weird. They have a new person in charge. They\u2019re being shuffled between different teams. Their teams are headed by one person and then their boss\u2019s boss is someone else, which probably means their bosses are weird.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">It\u2019s not great for productivity, especially heading into such an important time for OpenAI. Even if it\u2019s a move that makes sense and is good long term, it\u2019s still going to be weird for people in the short term.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">In some ways the latter is true in terms of Brockman and Altman having been at the helm from the start. Someone who\u2019s been there for eight months who leaves is not going to have as much of an impact. But we\u2019re seeing some people that have been there for a really long time leave as well, like Brad Lightcap. He was someone that I had tracked for years and years. All of a sudden he\u2019s out, after switching roles, and now he says he\u2019s going to start something new. He says he\u2019s implying he\u2019s still going to work with OpenAI in some way, shape or form. He and Altman <a href=\"https:\/\/x.com\/sama\/status\/2087243765765509185\">had a really friendly exchange on X after he left<\/a>, but a lot of it\u2019s for show.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">They\u2019ve got to make sure that people aren\u2019t skittish about the company right now. It\u2019s something he just has to say. But it\u2019s also true that if there were two people that would be the most influential if they left, and luckily those two are still there, Brockman and Altman.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>You\u2019ve mentioned the public antipathy towards AI several times now. There is just a lot of anti-AI sentiment out in the world. And it\u2019s pretty politically coded, although it <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/971855\/ai-data-center-backlash-protests-florida-bipartisan\"><strong>scrambled some political lines<\/strong><\/a><strong>. Hating AI is pretty bipartisan. Hating data centers is pretty bipartisan. We\u2019ve got <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/ai-artificial-intelligence\/902546\/data-centers-ai-energy-power-grids-controversy\"><strong>a lot of reporting about that on the site<\/strong><\/a><strong>. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Brockman is into politics. He <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/ai-artificial-intelligence\/867947\/openai-president-greg-brockman-trump-super-pac\"><strong>donated $25 million to MAGA Inc.<\/strong><\/a><strong> He\u2019s one of the top donors to Trump overall. Do you think him being so openly political will help or hurt him as he becomes more of a character, more of a visible leader of OpenAI?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">It\u2019s going to help the company from the outside, because they\u2019re trying to push a lot of stuff through during the Trump administration and they really want a voluntary regulation framework. They want to be in Trump\u2019s ear in a good way. It\u2019s going to hurt Brockman internally, because a lot of employees at tech companies that I\u2019ve interviewed in the past year, no matter what company they work at, are incredibly angry if their CEO or their C-suite isn\u2019t doing enough to speak out against some of the Trump administration\u2019s decisions.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Now, Brockman isn\u2019t just not speaking out against them, he\u2019s also supporting the admin with tens of millions of dollars. I could see this really hurting him from the inside. Maybe some people don\u2019t take him seriously. Maybe we will see some departures. It\u2019s going to help the company from the outside, just because when you\u2019re giving a lot of money to Trump, he seems to let you curry favor with him. We\u2019ll see.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>To be clear, we\u2019ve seen Sam Altman <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/2025\/1\/21\/24348816\/openai-softbank-ai-data-center-stargate-project\"><strong>stand next to Trump and announce data center projects<\/strong><\/a><strong>. So whatever reputation OpenAI was going to have because of its leaders, it might already have, but the specific political giving seems new. And as we head towards the midterms, it seems like a new challenge for the leaders of the company to be openly associated with. Do you think it\u2019ll change any of the valence around data centers and AI, how the public feels about them?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I don\u2019t know that it\u2019ll change that because we\u2019ve been careening towards this for a while. People are really mad about data centers and it\u2019s a bipartisan feeling, like you mentioned, and same with AI. Sam Altman and other AI CEOs have said in the past month that they feel like AI has a big PR problem and that they haven\u2019t done a good job of showing people the good parts of AI and how they need to do better to show people why they\u2019re even building it in the first place.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Maybe they do, but people have been told a lot of the good things about it and they\u2019re still not thinking that they\u2019re as good as the bad is bad. The AI industry is in for a rude awakening there. But as for what you mentioned about Altman, yes, he and every other AI CEO have been at Trump\u2019s dining table. They\u2019ve been <a href=\"https:\/\/www.yahoo.com\/news\/articles\/hot-mic-catches-mark-zuckerberg-170531448.html\">caught on hot mics praising him<\/a>.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">It\u2019s not something hugely new that Brockman\u2019s giving this money, but what is new is that he\u2019s giving it so much of it in a personal capacity, so much so that <a href=\"https:\/\/thehill.com\/policy\/technology\/5091930-sam-altman-claps-back-at-senate-inquiry-into-trump-inaugural-fund-donation\/\">Altman even had to come out and say<\/a> at some point, \u201cBrockman only did this in a personal capacity. We\u2019re not saying that we\u2019re super behind him.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">He also couldn\u2019t really say they weren\u2019t behind him, but <a href=\"https:\/\/www.businessinsider.com\/openai-greg-brockman-political-donations-super-pac-statement-leading-future-2026-6\">OpenAI had to separate themselves a little<\/a>. That\u2019s what\u2019s interesting to me about this. It\u2019s like the personal capacity of his giving has made so many headlines and OpenAI tried to distance itself a little bit, but not too much. Now they\u2019re not going to be able to do that because he\u2019s essentially running day-to-day operations.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>I\u2019m very curious to see how that plays out. I don\u2019t think we quite know yet, but as he becomes a more visible leader of the company, being that open about his politics, even in the context of the other big tech CEOs, is different. We don\u2019t quite see that from all of them. We see it from Elon, but everyone else plays it pretty safe. This is new, especially for a leader at OpenAI. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>All right, let\u2019s end here. Let\u2019s say it\u2019s two years from now, OpenAI is public. Do we think Greg Brockman is the CEO and Sam is just the \u201cchairman of raising money,\u201d or whatever it is that he\u2019s doing?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I could see that happening. It would take a couple of big things to make that happen. Altman really likes being in charge, so I don\u2019t think he\u2019s going to go super quietly. But if he ever needs to move on to a more big-picture chairman role, if the IPO doesn\u2019t go so well or he gets dragged in the public eye or something and still needs to be part of the company but not the CEO, I could definitely see that happening.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Especially because Brockman has a lot of ambitions. We saw his <a href=\"https:\/\/www.cnbc.com\/2026\/05\/05\/open-ai-altman-musk-trial-brockman-testimony.html\">journal entries come out during discovery<\/a>, during <em>Musk v. Altman<\/em>, and he was writing some pretty ambitious things.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>\u201cWhat will get me to a billion dollars?\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">He\u2019s saying, \u201cThis is my one chance to be in charge.\u201d There are a lot of entries that he\u2019s writing about how he\u2019s put his blood, sweat, and tears into the company and how he needs to be in charge in some way, shape, or form. He will probably be gunning for a role like that and he\u2019d be happy to take it on.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">We\u2019ll see what happens in the next few years. But I definitely don\u2019t think that\u2019s out of the question, especially because he\u2019s been there since the beginning. He has a lot of product experience and he\u2019s clearly ambitious. The other thing that is interesting is, way back in the day, he wasn\u2019t always so aligned with Altman all the time.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">In fact, Brockman and Sutskever, OpenAI\u2019s chief scientist, were pretty aligned against Sam every once in a while. Not against him, but they were questioning him and pushing back. They were saying things like, \u201cIt seems like you really care about this CEO role. It seems like you really care about being in charge and having a lot of power in this way and that way. How does this relate to your political ambitions? How does this relate to who\u2019s going to control AGI? We really don\u2019t want it to be a dictatorship.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Altman would probably be hard-pressed to give up the CEO title when he fought so hard for it, even 10 or 11 years ago. But if he ever does, it seems like Brockman would be happy to take it on.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>I will end by stating my prediction that I\u2019ve been making almost the whole year now. I don\u2019t think we will end 2026 with OpenAI as the same kind of company as when the year started. Actually I would say, given all of this turnover, that prediction has already come true. Structurally, it is a very different company with very different goals than the year started.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>But I\u2019ll just put that prediction to you. You cover the company way more closely than I do. Do you think there\u2019s any way that OpenAI looks the same at the end of the year as it did at the top of the year?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Absolutely not. When a company goes public, so many things change. Especially when the end of the year is only five months away.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>It\u2019s a scary number of months away. It\u2019s tomorrow.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Let\u2019s say maybe not by December 31st, but six months from now, 100 percent it\u2019s going to look different and probably sooner than that. They\u2019re going to have to make a lot of changes. They\u2019re going to be listening to their investors in a new way and they\u2019re going to be beholden to them in a new way. There are only certain parts of this industry that make money and OpenAI is not in the lead in those parts.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">They\u2019re going to have to go all-in on that type of stuff. The type of research that they want to do to stay at the frontier, they can make a case for that. Money-wise, they can say, \u201cLook, in order to stay in the lead, we have to do this long-term stuff a little bit.\u201d But they\u2019re not going to be able to go all-in on it all the time because it costs a lot of money \u2014 and they have a limited amount.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">We\u2019re going to see a lot of the anxieties that we saw Brockman and Altman voice a year ago, two years ago. I\u2019ve been in the room with them where <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/ai-artificial-intelligence\/812455\/ai-industry-earnings-bubble-fomo-hype\">they\u2019re talking about their fear that they\u2019re running out of compute<\/a> and how they\u2019re going to scale. Their whole job for the next six months, the next year, et cetera, is scaling.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">They\u2019ve had so many concerns about this. They\u2019ve had so many fears about how they\u2019re going to do this with their limited compute, especially now that they\u2019re going public and they\u2019re beholden to investors in a new way. There\u2019s no way the company is going to look the same.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Hayden, this has been great. Thank you so much for being on <\/strong><strong><em>Decoder<\/em><\/strong><strong> again. We\u2019ll have you back when another season of <\/strong><strong><em>The Real Housewives of AI<\/em><\/strong><strong> kicks off, which is probably going to be tomorrow at the rate we\u2019re going.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _18mzr4ba _19wv7tc1\"><em>[Laughs]<\/em> Absolutely. Thanks.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><em><sub>Questions or comments? Hit us up at decoder@theverge.com. 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href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/games\/984959\/gta-vi-leaks-rockstar-games-official-statement-heartbreaking\">\n<div class=\"_1qu42rqa _1qu42rq9\">Rockstar finally responds to \u2018heartbreaking\u2019 GTA 6 leaks<\/div>\n<p><\/a><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1qu42rq7 _1qu42rq6 _1044qiz11\"><\/div>\n<\/li>\n<li class=\"_1qu42rq4 _1qu42rq3\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/ai-artificial-intelligence\/984923\/bill-gates-is-deeply-worried-about-ai-and-hes-no-longer-staying-quiet\">\n<div class=\"_1qu42rqa _1qu42rq9\">Bill Gates is deeply worried about AI, and he\u2019s no longer staying quiet<\/div>\n<p><\/a><\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"noh1q12 noh1q18\">\n<div>\n<div class=\"o1ls92a o1ls90 o1ls92i\">\n<div class=\"o1ls90 o1ls92b\" data-concert=\"medium_rectangle_gamestop_desktop\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"o1ls926 o1ls90 o1ls92i\">\n<div class=\"o1ls90 o1ls927\" data-concert=\"connatix_right_rail\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div 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href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\">Podcasts<\/a><\/h2>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"sticky-nav-trigger\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_75r1tr4\">\n<div>\n<div class=\"_1hofmaw0\">\n<div class>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card up4voo0 _7uluu53\">\n<div class=\"up4voo7 up4voop up4vooa _1cnxcye3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"How GoFundMe became America\u2019s backup plan\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/08\/DCD_20260824_TimCadogan.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0.027173913043484%2C0%2C99.945652173913%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1cnxcye1 _1cnxcye4\"><title>Play<\/title><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"up4voo6\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd7 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54 _7uluu55\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/982901\/gofundme-ceo-tim-cadogan-fundraising-healthcare-medical-expenses\">How GoFundMe became America\u2019s backup plan<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card up4voo0 _7uluu53\">\n<div class=\"up4voo7 up4voop up4vooa _1cnxcye3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Pixel 11 gets in on the digicam trend\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/08\/VST082126_Site.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"up4voo6\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd7 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54 _7uluu55\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/983288\/pixel-11-gets-in-on-the-digicam-trend\">Pixel 11 gets in on the digicam trend<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card up4voo0 _7uluu53\">\n<div class=\"up4voo7 up4voop up4vooa _1cnxcye3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Welcome to the AI crisis in math\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/08\/DCD_082026_Site.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1cnxcye1 _1cnxcye4\"><title>Play<\/title><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"up4voo6\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd7 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54 _7uluu55\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/982434\/ai-math-openai-astra-existential-crisis\">Welcome to the AI crisis in math<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card up4voo0 _7uluu53\">\n<div class=\"up4voo7 up4voop up4vooa _1cnxcye3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"It\u2019s about ethics in journalism, with Ben Smith\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/08\/DCD_BenSmith.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1cnxcye1 _1cnxcye4\"><title>Play<\/title><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"up4voo6\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd7 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54 _7uluu55\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/980759\/ben-smith-semafor-ethics-journalism-ai-events-buzzfeed-media-news\">It\u2019s about ethics in journalism, with Ben Smith<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card up4voo0 _7uluu53\">\n<div class=\"up4voo7 up4voop up4vooa _1cnxcye3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Mark Zuckerberg has an Instagzam\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/08\/VRGVSST_0814_SIte.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"up4voo6\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd7 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54 _7uluu55\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/980367\/instagram-logo-new-zuckerberg-ai-vergecast\">Mark Zuckerberg has an Instagzam<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card up4voo0 _7uluu53\">\n<div class=\"up4voo7 up4voop up4vooa _1cnxcye3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Does Google even want to win at AI?\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/08\/VRG_DCD_081226.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1cnxcye1 _1cnxcye4\"><title>Play<\/title><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"up4voo6\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd7 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54 _7uluu55\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/979370\/google-deepmind-ai-race-lose-jeff-dean-demis-hassabis\">Does Google even want to win at AI?<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_1hofmaw2\">\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj1 _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqjj _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqj7 _1ismqj6 _1ismqjc _1ismqjh _1cnxcye3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"How GoFundMe became America\u2019s backup plan\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjf i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/08\/DCD_20260824_TimCadogan.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=16.684782608696%2C0%2C66.630434782609%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"How GoFundMe became America\u2019s backup plan\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjg i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/08\/DCD_20260824_TimCadogan.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0.027173913043484%2C0%2C99.945652173913%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1cnxcye1 _1cnxcye4\"><title>Play<\/title><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd3 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/982901\/gofundme-ceo-tim-cadogan-fundraising-healthcare-medical-expenses\">How GoFundMe became America\u2019s backup plan<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"jelpepd jelpep0\"><span><span class=\"_1g89o322 _19wv7tc5\"><span><span>Nilay Patel<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw2 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5 _1044qizs\"><time datetime=\"2026-08-24T14:00:00+00:00\">Aug 24<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj1 _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqj7 _1ismqj6 _1ismqjc _1ismqjh _1cnxcye3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Pixel 11 gets in on the digicam trend\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjf i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/08\/VST082126_Site.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=16.666666666667%2C0%2C66.666666666667%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Pixel 11 gets in on the digicam trend\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjg i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/08\/VST082126_Site.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd3 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/983288\/pixel-11-gets-in-on-the-digicam-trend\">Pixel 11 gets in on the digicam trend<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"jelpepd jelpep0\"><span><span class=\"_1g89o322 _19wv7tc5\"><span><span>Jacob Kastrenakes<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw2 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5 _1044qizs\"><time datetime=\"2026-08-21T16:27:05+00:00\">Aug 21<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj1 _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqj7 _1ismqj6 _1ismqjc _1ismqjh _1cnxcye3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Welcome to the AI crisis in math\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjf i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/08\/DCD_082026_Site.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=16.666666666667%2C0%2C66.666666666667%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Welcome to the AI crisis in math\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjg i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/08\/DCD_082026_Site.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1cnxcye1 _1cnxcye4\"><title>Play<\/title><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd3 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/982434\/ai-math-openai-astra-existential-crisis\">Welcome to the AI crisis in math<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"jelpepd jelpep0\"><span><span class=\"_1g89o322 _19wv7tc5\"><span><span>Nilay Patel<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw2 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5 _1044qizs\"><time datetime=\"2026-08-20T14:00:00+00:00\">Aug 20<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj1 _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqj7 _1ismqj6 _1ismqjc _1ismqjh _1cnxcye3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"It\u2019s about ethics in journalism, with Ben Smith\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjf i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/08\/DCD_BenSmith.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=16.666666666667%2C0%2C66.666666666667%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"It\u2019s about ethics in journalism, with Ben Smith\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjg i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/08\/DCD_BenSmith.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1cnxcye1 _1cnxcye4\"><title>Play<\/title><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd3 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/980759\/ben-smith-semafor-ethics-journalism-ai-events-buzzfeed-media-news\">It\u2019s about ethics in journalism, with Ben Smith<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"jelpepd jelpep0\"><span><span class=\"_1g89o322 _19wv7tc5\"><span><span>Nilay Patel<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw2 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5 _1044qizs\"><time datetime=\"2026-08-17T14:00:00+00:00\">Aug 17<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj1 _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqj7 _1ismqj6 _1ismqjc _1ismqjh _1cnxcye3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Mark Zuckerberg has an Instagzam\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjf i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/08\/VRGVSST_0814_SIte.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=16.666666666667%2C0%2C66.666666666667%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Mark Zuckerberg has an Instagzam\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjg i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/08\/VRGVSST_0814_SIte.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd3 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/980367\/instagram-logo-new-zuckerberg-ai-vergecast\">Mark Zuckerberg has an Instagzam<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"jelpepd jelpep0\"><span><span class=\"_1g89o322 _19wv7tc5\"><span><span>David Pierce<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw2 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5 _1044qizs\"><time datetime=\"2026-08-14T16:54:16+00:00\">Aug 14<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj1 _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqjk _1ismqjl _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqj7 _1ismqj6 _1ismqjc _1ismqjh _1cnxcye3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Does Google even want to win at AI?\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjf i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/08\/VRG_DCD_081226.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=16.666666666667%2C0%2C66.666666666667%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Does Google even want to win at AI?\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjg i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/08\/VRG_DCD_081226.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1cnxcye1 _1cnxcye4\"><title>Play<\/title><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd3 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/979370\/google-deepmind-ai-race-lose-jeff-dean-demis-hassabis\">Does Google even want to win at AI?<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"jelpepd jelpep0\"><span><span class=\"_1g89o322 _19wv7tc5\"><span><span>Nilay Patel<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw2 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5 _1044qizs\"><time datetime=\"2026-08-13T14:10:31+00:00\">Aug 13<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--ad--native-ad-linkset _14xz0mv4 _14xz0mv5 _14xz0mva hidden\" data-native-ad-id=\"container\">\n<div>\n<div class=\"visually-hidden\">\n<div class=\"dynamic-native-ad-native_ad_linkset_link\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/\" aria-label=\"Advertisement\"><\/p>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"_14xz0mv7\"><span data-native-ad-id=\"preamble\" class=\"_14xz0mv8 _14xz0mv9\">Advertiser Content From<\/span><\/p>\n<div><img data-native-ad-id=\"logo\" src alt=\"Sponsor Logo\" class=\"_14xz0mvg\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p class=\"_14xz0mvj\" data-native-ad-id=\"title\">This is the title for the native ad<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<p><\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"e3czlx6\">\n<div class=\"duet--layout--header-pattern _75r1tr2\">\n<div class=\"_75r1tr3\">\n<div class=\"duet--layout--page-header bpecqn0\">\n<div class=\"bpecqnj bpecqnf\">\n<h2 class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup bpecqno bpecqnm _19wv7tc2\">Top Stories<\/h2>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"sticky-nav-trigger\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_75r1tr4\">\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqjj _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"jelpep4 jelpep0\"><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw8 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5\"><time datetime=\"2026-08-26T21:36:06+00:00\">Aug 26<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd7 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54 _7uluu55\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/ai-artificial-intelligence\/985385\/openais-rogue-ai-model-hugging-face-cybersecurity-incident-reports-metr\">OpenAI\u2019s rogue AI model incident was worse than we thought<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"jelpep4 jelpep0\"><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw8 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5\"><time datetime=\"2026-08-26T13:31:32+00:00\">Aug 26<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd7 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54 _7uluu55\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/policy\/985032\/meta-state-ag-kids-online-safety-settlement\">Meta agrees to heavy restrictions on teen users in major lawsuit settlement<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"jelpep4 jelpep0\"><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw8 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5\"><time datetime=\"2026-08-26T18:14:08+00:00\">Aug 26<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd7 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54 _7uluu55\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/news\/985225\/heat-stress-children-climate-change-study\">Being a mom is hard \u2014 the heat is making it harder<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"jelpep4 jelpep0\"><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw8 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5\"><time datetime=\"2026-08-26T16:03:49+00:00\">Aug 26<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd7 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54 _7uluu55\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/tech\/983407\/apple-iphone-launch-event-2026-date\">Apple announces September iPhone launch event<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqjk _1ismqjl _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"jelpep4 jelpep0\"><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw8 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5\"><time datetime=\"2026-08-26T14:30:00+00:00\">Aug 26<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd7 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54 _7uluu55\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/tech\/984936\/xbox-disc-to-digital-feature-official\">Xbox announces disc-to-digital feature that digitizes your physical games<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p><\/main><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Podcasts Close Podcasts Posts from this topic 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