{"id":1972102,"date":"2026-06-04T14:00:00","date_gmt":"2026-06-04T11:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/?p=1972102"},"modified":"2026-06-04T14:00:00","modified_gmt":"2026-06-04T11:00:00","slug":"elon-musk-is-steamrolling-wall-street-to-become-a-trillionaire","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/?p=1972102","title":{"rendered":"Elon Musk is steamrolling Wall Street to become a trillionaire"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><main id=\"content\"><\/p>\n<div class>\n<article>\n<div class=\"duet--article--lede duet--page-layout--feature-article _1se63890\">\n<div class=\"duet--ledes--feature-lede _1m5y14k0\">\n<div class=\"_1m5y14k1\">\n<div class=\"_1m5y14k6 _1m5y14k7\">\n<div class=\"_1xtd7xb5 _1xtd7xb4\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_1044qiz7\">\n<div class=\"_1m5y14k2 _1044qiz3\">\n<div class=\"_1m5y14k3\">\n<div class=\"_5s9d1e0 _5s9d1e2\">\n<div class=\"_5s9d1e3\"><span class=\"_29pwo217\"><\/p>\n<ul class=\"_1phh1th0\">\n<li>\n<div 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class=\"fv263x5\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/business\">See All <!-- -->Business<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/aside>\n<\/div>\n<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><\/span><\/div>\n<div class>\n<h1 class=\"cbn62f2 cbn62f0 cbn62f7 _19wv7tcb _19wv7tc9\">Elon Musk is steamrolling Wall Street to become a trillionaire<\/h1>\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup cbn62fi cbn62fg _19wv7tcb _19wv7tc1\"><em>The New York Times<\/em>\u2019 Ryan Mac on how the SpaceX IPO is shaping up to be the greatest Musk gambit yet.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_29pwo22 _29pwo20 _29pwo221\">\n<div class=\"_29pwo29 _29pwo2h\">\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-byline _19wv7tcb _1p3b6390\"><span class><span>by<\/span> <!-- --> <span aria-expanded=\"false\" role=\"button\"><span id=\"follow-author-author_byline_lead-dmcyOmF1dGhvclByb2ZpbGU6NjAx\" class=\"t0jcdf0 gnx4pm0 _1p3b6392 _1p3b6394 t0jcdf1\"><span class=\"t0jcdf2\"><span class=\"_1ajq89ka _1ajq89k1 _1ajq89k0\"><\/span><\/span><span>Nilay Patel<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<aside id=\"popover-dmcyOmF1dGhvclByb2ZpbGU6NjAx-author_byline_lead\" style=\"position:absolute;left:0;top:0\" class=\"_1wu3rm0 _1se63890\" aria-hidden=\"true\">\n<div class=\"_1wu3rm1\"><button class=\"_1wu3rm3\"><title>Close<\/title><\/button><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1bw37384\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Nilay Patel\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1bw37385 i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;filter: url(%23b);)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/chorus\/author_profile_images\/195834\/NILAY_PATEL.0.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"_1wu3rm5 _1bw37380\">Nilay Patel<\/div>\n<div class=\"_1bw37381\">\n<div class=\"_1bw37382\">Editor-in-Chief<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p class=\"fv263x1\">Posts from this author will be added to your daily email digest and your homepage feed.<\/p>\n<p><button class=\"duet--cta--button _11kb06m1 _11kb06m0 fv263x2 _11kb06mg\"><span><title>Follow<\/title><\/span><span>Follow<\/span><\/button><\/p>\n<p class=\"fv263x4\"><a class=\"fv263x5\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/authors\/nilay-patel\">See All by <!-- -->Nilay Patel<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/aside>\n<p><\/span><\/div>\n<p><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw6 g4xafw1 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5 _19wv7tcb\"><time datetime=\"2026-06-04T14:00:00+00:00\">Jun 4, 2026, 2:00 PM UTC<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"_29pwo2m _29pwo2w\">\n<div class=\"_29pwo2x _29pwo215\"><span class=\"_29pwo216 _29pwo217\"><\/p>\n<ul class=\"duet--article--share-buttons _1e9wo7z0\">\n<li>\n<div class=\"_1e9wo7zo\"><button aria-label=\"Copy link\" class=\"_1e9wo7z3 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id=\"follow-author-standard_article_details-dmcyOmF1dGhvclByb2ZpbGU6NjAx\" class=\"t0jcdf0 gnx4pm0 _1p3b6392 _1p3b6393 t0jcdf1\"><span class=\"t0jcdf2\"><span class=\"_1ajq89k1 _1ajq89k0\"><\/span><\/span><span>Nilay Patel<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<aside id=\"popover-dmcyOmF1dGhvclByb2ZpbGU6NjAx-standard_article_details\" style=\"position:absolute;left:0;top:0\" class=\"_1wu3rm0 _1se63890\" aria-hidden=\"true\">\n<div class=\"_1wu3rm1\"><button class=\"_1wu3rm3\"><title>Close<\/title><\/button><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1bw37384\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Nilay Patel\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1bw37385 i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;filter: url(%23b);)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/chorus\/author_profile_images\/195834\/NILAY_PATEL.0.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"_1wu3rm5 _1bw37380\">Nilay Patel<\/div>\n<div class=\"_1bw37381\"><\/div>\n<p class=\"fv263x1\">Posts from this author will be added to your daily email digest and your homepage feed.<\/p>\n<p><button class=\"duet--cta--button _11kb06m1 _11kb06m0 fv263x2 _11kb06mg\"><span><title>Follow<\/title><\/span><span>Follow<\/span><\/button><\/p>\n<p class=\"fv263x4\"><a class=\"fv263x5\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/authors\/nilay-patel\">See All by <!-- -->Nilay Patel<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/aside>\n<p> <span class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup _4aoxp37\">is editor-in-chief of The Verge, host of the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/decoder-podcast-with-nilay-patel\"><b>Decoder podcast<\/b><\/a>, and co-host of <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/the-vergecast\"><b>The Vergecast<\/b><\/a>.<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div id=\"zephr-anchor\" class=\"_1044qiz13\">\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b2 _18mzr4b0 _18mzr4b7 _18mzr4b5 _19wv7tc1 _18mzr4bb\">Today on <em>Decoder<\/em>, I\u2019m talking to Ryan Mac, a technology reporter at <em>The New York Times<\/em> and coauthor of the excellent book <em>Character Limit: How Elon Musk Destroyed Twitter<\/em>, which <a href=\"https:\/\/www.penguinrandomhouse.com\/books\/737290\/character-limit-by-kate-conger-and-ryan-mac\/\">came out in 2024<\/a>. I can\u2019t recommend it enough.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I wanted to have Ryan on the show because we\u2019re on the cusp of the SpaceX IPO, which promises to be one of the most consequential public offerings in history for a variety of reasons \u2014 its <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/science\/935102\/spacex-ipo-elon-musk-tesla-cybertruck-xai-risk-factor\">biggest-ever size, of course, at nearly $2 trillion dollars<\/a>, but also because all kinds of rules that keep our markets fair are <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/ai-artificial-intelligence\/940001\/elon-musk-spacex-ipo-ai\">being bent, if not outright broken, along the way<\/a>. I also wanted to talk to Ryan because buried somewhere inside SpaceX is X, the social platform formerly known as Twitter, which Musk purchased in 2022. That\u2019s what Ryan cowrote that book about.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I was very confident that Musk would come to regret buying Twitter back then. I wrote a piece called <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/2022\/10\/28\/23428132\/elon-musk-twitter-acquisition-problems-speech-moderation\">\u201cWelcome To hell, Elon,\u201d<\/a> which is probably the single most-read thing I\u2019ve ever written. My thesis was that there would be no way to grow Twitter users and revenue without moderating the platform well and, ultimately, that Elon buying Twitter would destroy his reputation and cause damage to his other companies.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Now, we have the numbers from the SpaceX IPO filing to see how right my prediction was. X is shrinking by every major metric, but it may not matter, as Ryan points out. Take a listen, and let me know what you think.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Ryan and I also got into all those rules being broken to land the SpaceX IPO \u2014 rules about shareholder control, inclusion in the major index funds, and all the other levers of market accountability that usually serve to keep companies in check. You\u2019re going to hear us say \u201ccorporate governance\u201d a lot in this episode, and while it may sound boring, it won\u2019t be if you take a shot every time it comes up.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Okay, don\u2019t do that. But do consider what it means that Elon has become so rich, so powerful, and so detached from the levers of accountability that he can apparently get away with anything. That\u2019s all without any of the major fund managers or investors calling foul because they don\u2019t want to miss out on what could be the biggest financial windfall in recent memory. There\u2019s a lot to think about in this episode.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Okay: <em>New York Times<\/em> tech reporter Ryan Mac, on Elon Musk, X, and the SpaceX IPO. Here we go.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--block-placement _1xorkac1 _1xorkac0 duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<div class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup _1h0hdr20\">\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><em>This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity. <\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Ryan Mac, you\u2019re a technology reporter at the <\/strong><strong><em>New York Times<\/em><\/strong><strong>. Welcome to <\/strong><strong><em>Decoder<\/em><\/strong><strong>.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Thanks for having me.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>I am really excited to talk to you. I can\u2019t believe you\u2019ve never been on the show before. I feel like we\u2019ve done a lot of reporting in and around each other. I\u2019m a big fan. Thanks so much for being on.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I know. What the hell, man? You just have avoided me this whole time. But no, I\u2019m kidding. It\u2019s good to be here. I\u2019ve listened to many episodes, so great to be a part of it.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Well, now we\u2019re going to ask you to answer for your crimes, which is what the <\/strong><strong><em>Decoder<\/em><\/strong><strong> audience really wants me to do, I guess. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Speaking of crimes, we\u2019re going to talk about the SpaceX IPO. Elon Musk has obviously filed to take SpaceX public. There\u2019s a lot in that IPO, including the idea that there\u2019s a $28 trillion addressable market for SpaceX services, which is more than the world. Just a lot in there. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>You\u2019ve reported on a lot of it. So I do want to dive into it, but I actually want to start with X, the everything app, the app formerly known as Twitter. Because the SpaceX S-1 really gives us our first look into what that business is, what it has become, where it\u2019s growing. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>In 2022, I wrote an article \u2014 maybe the most viral article I\u2019ve ever written \u2014 it was called <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/2022\/10\/28\/23428132\/elon-musk-twitter-acquisition-problems-speech-moderation\"><strong>\u201cWelcome to hell, Elon,\u201d<\/strong><\/a><strong> in which I very confidently predicted that buying Twitter would be a disaster for Elon Musk. I\u2019m just going to read you my thesis. It was the first sentence of the piece. And then I want to try to back into what we know about X. I\u2019m very curious if you think this has come true or not.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>So my thesis was: \u201cTwitter is a disaster clown car company that is successful despite itself and there is no possible way to grow users and revenue without making a series of enormous compromises that will ultimately destroy Elon Musk\u2019s reputation and possibly cause grievous damage to his other companies.\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>There\u2019s one view to say, \u201cYep, that totally came true.\u201d There\u2019s another view to say that actually Elon is more powerful than ever and on the cusp of an IPO that\u2019s going to make him a trillionaire. So tell me about X. What do we know about X, the company in the years since Elon has bought it and what do we know about its financials as reported in this S-1?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Sure. I think you mentioned the word \u201cgrowing\u201d in all that and I think the place to start is the fact that X is simply not growing. It\u2019s stagnated in terms of revenue, stagnated in terms of user growth. It\u2019s been buried twice within Elon\u2019s companies \u2014 first into xAI and now into SpaceX. So it\u2019s become, in some ways, an afterthought in the Musk empire, despite it still being arguably Musk\u2019s favorite thing. He spends countless hours a day on that thing, like many of us used to, and many of us still do.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">But in terms of a business proposition, it\u2019s a non-factor if you compare it to some of the other aspects of this business \u2014 something like Starlink, for example. If you look back at 2022, it\u2019s just bizarre. He bought this company on a whim. He pitched this idea to investors that he would have one billion users. He would have integrated payments. It would be somewhere you could potentially book a taxi. He pitched this idea of it being WeChat. You mentioned the everything app. And it\u2019s certainly not the everything app. At one point he was like, \u201cYou could watch TV on it.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">None of that has come to fruition. Yet I look at what\u2019s happened in the last four to five years since then, and he\u2019s gotten more powerful than ever. His net worth has increased. I think around the time he bought the company he was around $300 billion. His net worth now fluctuates anywhere from $600 to $800 billion these days. And a SpaceX IPO will take him potentially beyond the trillion dollar mark for the first time ever in human history. So it\u2019s bizarre in that there are a lot of contradictory things about it, but at the end of the day, I\u2019d argue he still comes out on top.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Is it just as simple as he bought a distribution platform for his own tweets and he controlled it and he fixed the algorithm to favor himself and that worked? And it doesn\u2019t matter that revenue is down $100 million year over year and not even quite 40 percent of Twitter\u2019s pre-acquisition revenue? <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>He\u2019s destroyed the business by every metric we can see in the S-1. Every number is down. And only the revenue from data licensing to AI companies is up. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">His own AI company too. Yes, if you singularly look at X as a business, it\u2019s clearly a failure from the time he took over the company to Fidelity marking the valuation of the company down to $10 billion before he merged it with xAI. But also you have to look at it in the whole landscape of Musk Inc. Since he bought the company, he spun up xAI, raised billions of dollars for that company. He then merged it into xAI, burying it, and then he merged it again with xAI into SpaceX.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I guess he\u2019s up, if you\u2019re doing a plus-minus analysis of valuations of these companies. Again, these are valuations that seemingly have no basis in business fundamentals. We\u2019re playing with Musk math here. He has this whole cadre of investors and friends that are willing to back him to the end of the Earth, but yeah, he\u2019s, I\u2019d say, winning.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>There\u2019s a version of this where you could straightforwardly make the argument that however many billions he lost on Twitter is worth it as an investment that got him to, \u201cWe\u2019re going to do a trillion-dollar SpaceX IPO.\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Yeah, and I caution against looking back at it historically and thinking that was his plan all along. There is this trope that came up after Trump won the election that Elon Musk bought X to then help elect Donald Trump. There was really no proof of that, especially when we did our reporting at <em>The Times<\/em> and for our book <em>Character Limit,<\/em> but it has worked out for him. It\u2019s indisputable in that sense.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">He has bought a distribution platform for his own tweets. He\u2019s the most followed person on the platform now. He controls the algorithm, he controls the content that gets boosted on the platform. I don\u2019t know how to say this more, but he\u2019s winning and that\u2019s just where we are right now in society.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>In the pre-X days when it was still Twitter, Elon would constantly talk about how he didn\u2019t do any marketing for Tesla. They had spent no money in advertising, no money in marketing. He would just tweet to move Tesla sales up and down. And there was infinite demand for the Tesla Model 3 in particular and the Model Y. So much so that every other car maker essentially got confused and made Tesla Model Ys of their own.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>They just thought people wanted electric cars. And maybe they just wanted Tesla\u2019s and maybe there was a meme stock component to it, but Elon was just very good at using Twitter to drive demand for his products. He would constantly say, \u201cI don\u2019t have to pay for marketing. I just have this platform.\u201d <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>The other part of my thesis was that buying X and changing the algorithm and being as political as he has been would cause reputational damage to Elon, would cause reputational damage to his companies. There\u2019s some evidence that that is true in the case of Tesla, where the cars are less popular than they once were, certainly. There are <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/tesla\/639183\/tesla-takedown-protest-march-29-elon-musk-doge\"><strong>campaigns to protest at Tesla dealerships<\/strong><\/a><strong>. Is that true for SpaceX? Is it true for the rest of his empire?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">It\u2019s a great question. And with Tesla, of course, after the election, you saw the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/news\/635249\/tesla-takedown-protest-stock-elon-musk-future\">Tesla Takedown protests<\/a>, people slapping those bumper stickers on their cars: \u201cI bought this before Elon went crazy.\u201d You could see the share of the Tesla market in the EV market falling. Of course, there\u2019s a lot to do with the rise of Chinese vehicle manufacturers like BYD.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">But I don\u2019t know. I don\u2019t think I see the same kind of reputational harm to SpaceX that I\u2019ve seen with Tesla. And that may be because there\u2019s just not as much consumer contact with parts of SpaceX. I think of something like the launch business. I\u2019m not going out and buying a launch. Regular people aren\u2019t buying launches; SpaceX is contracting with governments and big companies. Not to mention that they largely have a monopoly on getting things into space.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">If your option is working with a company that has a CEO that is reputationally compromised versus not getting into space at all, you\u2019ll probably go with the former. Starlink is another basket. It offers a product that is quite good and is not challenged in any way. I think of something like Iridium, for example, or the companies it competes against, and it just blows them out of the water. It\u2019s such a strong service, so much so that governments rely on it and Ukraine relies on it and the numbers there continue to grow. That\u2019s the crown jewel of the SpaceX business empire right now in terms of revenue and profit.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>There\u2019s no moral case to be made for being on Hughesnet still. You can\u2019t be a better person by being on some of the other satellite providers that service the rural parts of the country. We see it in our own traffic and our own comments. We cover Starlink. There\u2019s nothing better. They continue to innovate in the ways they continue to innovate and the audience doesn\u2019t like it, but then there\u2019s a huge part of the audience that says, \u201cWait, I don\u2019t have a market alternative to this.\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>You\u2019re saying where there isn\u2019t a market alternative, the reputational issues have not been a problem and every place where there might be or there\u2019s a consumer market, the reputational issues have damaged it. I think X is actually <\/strong><strong><em>the<\/em><\/strong><strong> example of this. There are a number of market alternatives to X, so people have just left the platform.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Whether or not there\u2019s one big competitor to X remains to be seen. Threads by some accounts is vastly bigger than X, but it does not have the influence. Bluesky is run by very charming, very ideological people. They\u2019re doing whatever it is they\u2019re doing. It\u2019s certainly not a competitor head up to X. Is there a reason that influence hasn\u2019t recapitulated itself anywhere, or that the people still on X have stayed there?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Oh man, it\u2019s something I think about a lot and I think the rumors of X\u2019s demise at the time were greatly exaggerated in a way. These social platforms are so sticky. I remember one of the rounds of layoffs \u2014 I think it was the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.npr.org\/2022\/11\/16\/1137105935\/twitter-elon-musk-ultimatum\">\u201cA Fork in the Road\u201d<\/a> or one of those earlier rounds \u2014 and Twitter went down for a period of time, too. I remember being at dinner and everyone just writing eulogies for Twitter that night. And I\u2019m like, \u201cGuys, I don\u2019t think this is it.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">This is a pretty resilient platform. It\u2019s been developed over more than a decade. It\u2019s been around for a while. It\u2019s quite a resilient thing and it has a dedicated user base. That\u2019s why we love it. It\u2019s a great social experiment. At the time, I was wary of being like, \u201cThis is the end of Twitter.\u201d And you\u2019re starting to see now just how resilient it is.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">We\u2019re so caught up in it as reporters. We\u2019re on it all the time. But there are normal people out there that still go to X because their soccer community is on it. Or it\u2019s where they talk about movies and they have their six best friends there. It\u2019s still a very sticky platform, in spite of the CSAM from Grok or the abusive stuff from Elon or the hate speech. They persist because it\u2019s just where they\u2019ve learned to be. It\u2019s hard to generate that from scratch, and I think that\u2019s why you\u2019re seeing things like Bluesky hit a ceiling here in terms of attracting a wider audience.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Do you think as we go into the IPO and SpaceX becomes a public company and X is just one piece of the puzzle, that it increases or decreases in importance to Elon? It is his favorite thing. But running a public rocket company is just a very different set of priorities.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Maybe, but also he never operates as we expect him to. Running Tesla and having a Twitter account have not worked out well for him in the past. He\u2019s been <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/2018\/9\/27\/17911428\/sec-lawsuit-elon-musk-tesla-funding-tweet\">sued for some of the stuff he\u2019s put on Twitter<\/a>. I think of 2018 when he got sued for saying funding was secured for taking Tesla private. And he <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/2018\/9\/29\/17918252\/elon-musk-tesla-sec-securities-fraud-lawsuit-settlement-fine-penalty\">paid $20 million in a fine<\/a> and largely got away with it.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">He\u2019s way more powerful now and way richer than ever. So I don\u2019t think SpaceX being a public company will necessarily change his habits on X these days. The other day I saw him posting about the Anthropic deal. I don\u2019t know if you saw that. That was in the S-1 and he was <a href=\"https:\/\/finance.yahoo.com\/markets\/stocks\/articles\/elon-musk-says-anthropic-spacex-073231400.html\">pushing back on the idea<\/a> that Anthropic would pay this amount of money for a certain amount of years \u2014 this large amount of revenue, about $1.25 billion a year.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">He was openly contradicting what was in the company\u2019s IPO documents, which you cannot do during a quiet period. I don\u2019t think anything\u2019s going to come of that. I don\u2019t think he\u2019ll get a slap on the wrist or anything. He\u2019s just higher than any form of accountability right now.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>That brings us to the larger SpaceX IPO in general, because the whole thing is structured to avoid the mechanisms of accountability that usually exist in our markets. It\u2019s going to end up on the NASDAQ in some way, shape or form in a way that basically all of us are going to end up invested in SpaceX.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>And we can\u2019t take our dollars away because it\u2019ll be in index funds. Elon is going to control an enormous part of the company in a way that maybe he just can never be removed. Who knows if even having a board of directors is important in that case. And then he has a monopoly on rocket launches, at least for now, and who knows if there will be market alternatives that provide accountability to SpaceX.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Walk us through how this is structured. You\u2019ve written about it at length that the SpaceX IPO is a corporate governance disaster, if you care about corporate governance. Walk us through it.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I\u2019m a big corporate governance guy myself.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>[Laughs] It is the hottest. It\u2019s what all the TikTok dances are about lately.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Yeah, I have a corporate governance tattoo on my lower back. But no, this is serious stuff and it\u2019s concerning to people that study corporate governance. So let\u2019s talk about Elon Musk\u2019s ownership of the company and his voting control of the company.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">He has super-voting shares that, all told, give him about 85 percent control of votes at the company. And that\u2019s a super-supermajority at this point. He basically controls every corporate decision at the share voting level. I think of something like Meta, for example, and compare that to Mark Zuckerberg. With super voting and voting agreements, Zuckerberg controls about 60 percent. Elon has even a larger stranglehold on his company than that. What does that mean? It means he controls the board, he appoints friends and advisors to board seats.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">There\u2019s no independent board commission to structure pay packages. Essentially he has control over how he gets compensated. I wrote about this <a href=\"https:\/\/www.cnn.com\/2025\/12\/19\/business\/musk-pay-package-latest\">pay package that he got earlier this year<\/a> where he was awarded 1.3 billion shares in what\u2019s called restricted stock.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">If you actually look at the footnotes there in that S-1, you could see that he\u2019s already able to vote that stock, which is insane and it\u2019s unheard of. He hasn\u2019t earned any of these shares and these shares are pegged to hitting milestones with the company, like creating a colony on Mars with a million people and putting data centers in space with, I think, 100 terawatts of compute a year, just an astronomical figure.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">He has to hit these things in order to gain these shares to sell them. Well, he hasn\u2019t hit any of these milestones and he\u2019s able to vote these already given the stipulations that were put on them from management.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Can I ask you about this, the colony on Mars? This is all bananas, right?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I guess we\u2019re burying the lede here, yeah.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>He gets a huge pay package if he puts a colony on Mars with a million people in it and puts however many terawatts of compute in space. He\u2019s in charge of this S-1. He obviously wrote it to his own specifications. Why set milestones that are unachievable and then vote the stock anyway instead of just giving yourself the stock?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Good question. Maybe it gives it some semblance that he has to work towards these goals, but if you talk to corporate governance folks, they\u2019re appalled that he gets to vote these anyways. This adds to his voting control, that 85 percent we talked about earlier. On top of that, he gets to take out loans against these shares. Of course that comes with board approval, but he controls the board. So he\u2019s able to take out loans against these shares and get cash. And yeah, I don\u2019t know. I don\u2019t know why he\u2019s even playing this dance of \u201cI have to hit these milestones.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>My theory is that it\u2019s so he can tweet about them. Legitimately, my theory is that he wants to be able to say, \u201cI don\u2019t get paid unless I put a million people on Mars.\u201d Regardless of the technical details of whether he can vote the shares or take out loans against them as collateral. He gets to represent to the world, \u201cI don\u2019t receive the windfall until there are a million people on Mars.\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">That\u2019s a great point. There\u2019s also a fun little wrinkle here in that you don\u2019t pay taxes on them until you earn them. And so because he hasn\u2019t earned them, because he doesn\u2019t technically hold them yet or doesn\u2019t have the ability to sell them, it\u2019s not taxable. He doesn\u2019t have to pay taxes on that either until he hits his milestones. In some ways, if you believe he\u2019ll never hit them, he can still derive the power and potentially financial gain from it simply by holding them, or having this pay package under his thumb.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>The usual way that a market could correct this is by a bunch of people telling retail investors, \u201cDon\u2019t invest in this IPO.\u201d Or a bunch of people who are angry at Elon Musk selling their Teslas and telling their friends not to buy this IPO and driving their stock price down. That is a market corrective. We can see this happen with a variety of companies over time. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>This IPO is <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/ai-artificial-intelligence\/940001\/elon-musk-spacex-ipo-ai\"><strong>going to end up in index funds very quickly<\/strong><\/a><strong> in a way that I think is also terrifying a bunch of corporate governance experts, the sexiest new characters in American politics. Talk about that. How are we going to mechanically all end up owning SpaceX whether we want to or not?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">This is the most underplayed and insane thing to think about. So how does this work? Maybe you and I take a look at the SpaceX IPO and we say, \u201cI don\u2019t like those financials. I personally would not invest in that company. I\u2019m not going to buy shares through my Robinhood account or Schwab account.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">But let\u2019s say we also have investments in index funds. We all have retirement accounts, and sometimes they\u2019re invested in index funds. So we\u2019re just passive investors in stock and these index funds trace the American industry by buying up shares in various stocks. So what\u2019s happening here is that SpaceX and these indices have worked together to relax some of the rules. Let\u2019s take the NASDAQ-100, for example. The NASDAQ-100 has 100 stocks in it that trace American industry, like blue chip stocks.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Typically, it takes about 90 days for a company after its IPO to enter the NASDAQ-100, or to be allowed into the NASDAQ-100. The reason for that is it allows for some type of cooling period. Typically, after an IPO\u2019s stocks go up and down, it takes some time to settle on the public market and to have a steady valuation, and that\u2019s normal.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">In this case, SpaceX gets to enter the index after 15 days, in the midst of this very big hype cycle. That\u2019s essentially going to force a lot of these index funds to buy up SpaceX shares because it has entered the index. That will give SpaceX access to a lot of capital it would have had to have waited for for a couple of months. And that\u2019s going to continue to drive the buying frenzy in the stock. It\u2019s genius in a way, from SpaceX\u2019s perspective, to get that access to billions of dollars of capital in some of these index funds, and that\u2019s just one way the rules have been relaxed for this IPO.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>How did that occur? Did Elon just roll up to all the index fund owners and say, \u201cPretty please?\u201d Did you buy them off? Was it above board? Was it corrupt?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Basically it\u2019s been pretty opaque, but these things were simply announced. There have been rules around profitability that have been relaxed as well at some of these indices. There have been rules around governance that have been relaxed as well.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">What I\u2019m seeing here, what I\u2019ve talked to folks about, is just this level of hype has generated so much FOMO around this stock, this fear of missing out. You get to the point where these rules are being thrown out. I talked to one corporate governance expert who said it\u2019d be like having all the rules and setting aside all the rules for football. And you play with the rules of football and you\u2019ve perfected it and you have it down to the rules of the game and then when you get to the Super Bowl, the biggest event of the year, you change those rules. And that\u2019s what we\u2019re seeing here with SpaceX.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>There are a lot of people who root against the Kansas City Chiefs who understand exactly what you\u2019re talking about in very specific ways.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">[Laughs] It\u2019d be like taking the tush push out of the NFL.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Well, I get it, but it\u2019s also one of the biggest IPOs. The banks have all been listed on the IPO. They\u2019re all participating in it. Is it just as simple as they all want the business, or do they also have some amount of influence over the index funds so that they\u2019re just changing the rules?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Yeah. I think of this quote from a story that <a href=\"https:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/2026\/05\/29\/business\/spacex-ipo-wall-street.html\">two of my colleagues wrote last week for <em>The Times<\/em><\/a>. There\u2019s this one fund manager who simply said, \u201cIf I miss out on the SpaceX IPO, someone\u2019s going to tap me on the shoulder and ask me why I wasn\u2019t in that. Whereas if I get burned on the SpaceX IPO, so many other people are going to get burned as well. So I have a way to cover my ass.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">You\u2019re just reading this quote and thinking, \u201cWhat is going on here? He\u2019s just admitting to a herd mentality here.\u201d That\u2019s what we\u2019re seeing. Now multiply that by every retail investor who\u2019s getting marketing materials on Robinhood telling him, \u201cOh, we have IPO shares available in SpaceX, buy, buy, buy.\u201d It\u2019s unheard of.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>One of the things that really strikes me about that is the normal market dynamic is some people would obviously heavily bet on SpaceX succeeding and some people would heavily bet against it and you want that dynamic to find the right price for this. Here that just seems to be erased.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I\u2019ll be interested in the short interest against this stock. I think that\u2019ll be very interesting. But if you look at Elon\u2019s track record, let\u2019s say with Tesla for example, and how the stock has gone up over the years there, he\u2019s completely crushed a lot of shorts there. He used to <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/2019\/4\/20\/18509371\/skabooshka-twitter-elon-musk-tesla-short-seller-tslaq\">go to war against them<\/a>, and he used to tweet about them all the time, but the best way to beat short sellers is to continue to increase the value of the stock, which Tesla has done over the years.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">There\u2019s just a meme-ification of this whole thing. This is not just a hype stock, but a meme stock in some ways, and that\u2019s what happens when you have a celebrity CEO like this running a company.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>That\u2019s what\u2019s really interesting to me because the car sales are falling. The product is not as successful as it once was. In many cases, the products are old. The Model S and Model X are <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/transportation\/869872\/tesla-model-s-model-x-discontinue-optimus-robot-factory\"><strong>being discontinued because they\u2019re so old<\/strong><\/a><strong> and he doesn\u2019t want to spend money updating them.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Now, he\u2019s promising robotics and robotaxis and a bunch of other things that may never come to pass. Is he going to be able to pull the same move with SpaceX? Just continually promise something bigger to come in the future that changes the value dynamic with the company?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">He is right now as we speak. What happened at the beginning of this year? SpaceX was going along its way. It was a launch business with rockets that have self-landing capabilities and a really good business in Starlink. And what did he do? He <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/tech\/872619\/elon-musk-merges-spacex-with-xai-and-x\">combined it with xAI<\/a> and said, \u201cActually, you know what we\u2019re going to do? We\u2019re going to put data centers into space and this is the future. And oh, by the way, we\u2019re going to put a factory on Mars to build these satellites to launch into space. And then we\u2019ll get to the Mars colony.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">These are goals that have come up within the last year. He didn\u2019t talk about these things previously. In the same way at Tesla where he has completely pivoted the company towards robots and the humanoid whatever things, you\u2019re getting the same effect at SpaceX where he\u2019s just selling people on a completely different bill of goods.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">It\u2019s just so interesting. I look at some of the contradictions he\u2019s made over the years. There\u2019s a tweet of his that <a href=\"https:\/\/x.com\/elonmusk\/status\/1875023335891026324\">he put up probably a year ago<\/a> where he said, \u201cThe Moon doesn\u2019t matter, we\u2019re not focused on the Moon, we\u2019re focused on Mars.\u201d And then you go back and you look at the IPO documents and what he said more recently in the last couple of months and now <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/science\/875815\/has-elon-musk-changed-his-mind-on-mars-and-the-moon\">they\u2019re all in on the Moon<\/a>. And that\u2019s because NASA has put a renewed focus on the Moon and there\u2019s money there.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">So yeah, if you\u2019re going off of what Elon says, it is whichever way the wind blows at this point and thus far that\u2019s worked for him. People are willing to go with him and believe in him.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Here we are, a half hour into a conversation about the SpaceX IPO and we\u2019re going to talk about the fundamentals of the SpaceX business because that\u2019s about where it ranks. It\u2019s like the 15th thing on the priority list when you talk about the SpaceX IPO is the fundamentals of the business.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>As you\u2019ve said several times now, Starlink is the <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.marketwatch.com\/livecoverage\/spacex-ipo-filing-prospectus-elon-musk\/card\/starlink-spacex-crown-jewel-brings-in-more-than-11-billion-in-revenue-ZXgr97KF2t9v2mdlno7e\"><strong>only profitable part of this business<\/strong><\/a><strong>. It generated $11.4 billion in revenue last year. It goes up and down. Everything else is a gigantic money loser. The AI division <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/finance.yahoo.com\/sectors\/technology\/articles\/xai-burned-6-4b-last-222608682.html\"><strong>had a deficit of $6.4 billion<\/strong><\/a><strong>. The NASA contracts for launch lost $657 million. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Everything else is losing money and then Starlink is the business that\u2019s growing and generating actual profits. I look at that, I think, \u201cBoy, I\u2019ve covered the broadband industry for a long time here at <\/strong><strong><em>The Verge<\/em><\/strong><strong>. AT&amp;T and Verizon are not the world\u2019s sexiest businesses. They\u2019re not throwing off so much margin that you can lose $6 billion on AI for the rest of your life.\u201d <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>How does that work? Is there more Starlink to be had? Are we going to rip up all the fiber in the world and we\u2019ll all get satellites? How do you generate enough money with Starlink to pay for all of this other stuff?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Great question. I believe SpaceX thinks Starlink can continue to grow. There are a lot of markets that haven\u2019t been tapped yet. I think of something like India, for example, where the company is heavily courting the Modi government there to allow them to operate in a country with 1.5 billion people. There are markets like that where it can access and continue to grow that roughly 10 million, I think, monthly active user base.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Can I push back on that just for one second?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Sure.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>The Indian market is very complicated, but it is very well served by its own telecom providers. Reliance Jio is the winner in the Indian market and a huge number of people just have a cell phone as their primary connectivity device. They\u2019re doing fine and it\u2019s dirt cheap. Even if you\u2019re excited about putting Starlink in that market, how do you compete against that? Is it possible? Have they laid out the case?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">They have not. You can also argue that the revenue per user there is not going to be the same as it would be in the US or wherever else. But yeah, they\u2019ve made the argument that as long as it continues to grow, it\u2019s a good thing. They\u2019ll continue to launch more satellites into space with these things and cover the world essentially.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">SpaceX CEO Gwynne Shotwell gave a presentation at Mobile World Congress earlier this year where she basically put out a hit on all these big telecoms. Online she\u2019s compared herself or compared SpaceX to David versus Goliath, which is a convenient narrative where you have a $1.25 trillion David going against these supposed Goliaths here.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">That\u2019s the bull case for Starlink. But if you look at the other fundamentals of this, the spending on AI is quite nuts. It\u2019s losing so much money on AI development. We haven\u2019t even talked about the massive amount it has to pay for Cursor, which is a <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/science\/916427\/spacex-cursor-potential-deal-acquisition\">$60 billion deal<\/a>. So you asked earlier, what are people investing in here? They\u2019re investing in promises. There are no fundamentals here.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">We can talk until we\u2019re blue in the face about profits and revenues and growth, but at the end of the day, most investors are betting on Elon\u2019s words and his ability to sell them on this idea of putting data centers into space or getting people to Mars.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>The AI piece is fascinating. They\u2019re estimating that $22.7 trillion will be generated from enterprise AI.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Yeah, I want to talk about this TAM. It\u2019s just insane.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>TAM stands for total addressable market. It is $28 trillion, I think, maybe slightly more.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">There\u2019s a great line in the S-1, which says something like this is the largest TAM ever in human history. And I\u2019m like, \u201cCool. Show me how you got there.\u201d And it\u2019s just like, \u201cTrust me, bro.\u201d It\u2019s like, \u201cWe got this. We did the numbers and it\u2019s $23 trillion in AI and $3 trillion in rocket launches.\u201d I don\u2019t know where the fundamentals are for that. What are they basing that on? Sure, it\u2019s in their S-1, but it\u2019s a lot of \u201ctrust me\u201d at this point.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>The case for this is going to be a great IPO because SpaceX figured out the Falcon 9 and rocket reusability and they essentially have a monopoly on launched services in the United States, at least until Jeff Bezos and Blue Origin figure out whatever they\u2019re going to figure out. That\u2019s a pretty good case. I can see that case.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Starlink is a growing business. We are essentially the default government contractor for a very important mission both in national security and telecom and everything else we use satellites for. I see all of that.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Why add on this totally illusory enterprise $22.7 trillion from AI when you\u2019re up against OpenAI, Anthropic and Google? And Elon has <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/x.com\/elonmusk\/status\/2032201568335044978\"><strong>admitted very publicly<\/strong><\/a><strong> that xAI was not built correctly and needs to be totally rebuilt. Now, he\u2019s <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/science\/935229\/spacex-anthropic-ipo-ai-capacity-deal-colossus\"><strong>selling compute capacity to Anthropic on the side<\/strong><\/a><strong>.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">TAM says everything. It shows where they think the addressable market is, which is in AI. And all the hype right now is around AI, with OpenAI and Anthropic both expected to go public or at least file to go public. Anthropic <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/ai-artificial-intelligence\/941016\/anthropic-has-officially-filed-to-go-public\">did that today<\/a>. I think Elon saw that. And if you had just taken the old SpaceX business public, what does that look like? That\u2019s the launch business and that\u2019s Starlink, that\u2019s a solid business, right?<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Is it a $1.25 to $1.5 trillion business? No. But if you layer on all these promises of, \u201cActually, we control getting things into space so we\u2019re going to control getting data centers into space, and we\u2019re going to own all the data centers in space and everyone\u2019s going to have to rely on us to power the future of the American economy,\u201d that\u2019s a much more bullish proposition. It\u2019s also a much more valuable proposition and one that you can raise a lot more money on.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Elon sees this as a singular opportunity to raise money. We\u2019re talking about $50 to $75 billion in cash raised. That outstrips the current largest IPO, which was <a href=\"https:\/\/www.wsj.com\/articles\/aramco-expected-to-value-energy-giant-at-1-7-trillion-in-ipo-11575559262\">Saudi Aramco that raised almost $30 billion<\/a> a couple of years ago. If you layer AI on top of that, you get a lot of this hype that he can sell into and raise all that cash.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>What does he want to do with that cash?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Of course, get people to Mars.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Obviously.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">[Laughs] Of course, easy. Once you have $50 billion, you can land a million people on Mars. Yeah, these are expensive propositions. Building Starship is an expensive proposition. Building data centers on Earth is an expensive proposition, as is buying up all that compute, buying up talent, and buying companies like Cursor. He needs that cash to do all those things and continue building up Musk Inc. It\u2019s not like they\u2019re going to sit on this cash pile for a long time.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>It occurs to me that Elon does not enjoy normal rich guy activities. He\u2019s not buying boats. He doesn\u2019t have a fleet of cars. He does have a lot of children. They\u2019re expensive. I\u2019ve got two. They seem very expensive. I can use $50 billion just for that. The AI piece of it is confusing to me because it doesn\u2019t seem like there\u2019s evidence that Elon\u2019s AI efforts are competitive.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>They\u2019re competitive in the fact that Grok has distribution on X and I think a lot of these companies would love to have distribution that way. The fact that X users can just talk to Grok whenever they want \u2014 to do some unsavory things, but they still have distribution. Claude does not have that distribution. But Anthropic is ahead in coding.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Anthropic is ahead in a lot of places. OpenAI has mindshare. Google has distribution in every way it can possibly have distribution. It\u2019s going to power the next version of Siri for Apple. How do you win? How do you raise all this money and say, \u201cWe\u2019re going to have a $22 trillion enterprise service at market,\u201d when no one in AI thinks you\u2019re even close to the lead right now. Can you just buy the talent?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">xAI is clearly behind in the model war. I saw this great tweet the other day that if Claude is Coca-Cola and OpenAI is Pepsi, then Grok is the RC Cola.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>I knew you were going to say RC Cola and I was pre-offended.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">[Laughs] Oh, no. Are you an RC Cola fan? I could go with <a href=\"https:\/\/www.thetakeout.com\/1653317\/why-insane-clown-posse-drink-faygo-soda\/\">Faygo for the Juggalos out there<\/a> and I\u2019m sure there\u2019s a lot of Juggalos that like using Grok.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">But it\u2019s the fourth- or fifth- or sixth-best model, at least in terms of popularity. Can you build a business around that? Can that business be worth trillions of dollars? Probably not. And there\u2019s some admission from Elon that, or there has been admission from Elon that it hasn\u2019t gone as well.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">You mentioned how he said the company wasn\u2019t built right. You look at the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/science\/916427\/spacex-cursor-potential-deal-acquisition\">Cursor acquisition they\u2019re trying to pay for<\/a> to get back in the game. You also look at this very interesting deal that the company has with Anthropic to rent out its compute from one of its main data centers that it built in Tennessee.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Colossus has two data centers, Colossus 1 and Colossus 2. It has since rented out one of these to Anthropic in a $1.25 billion a month deal. Anthropic is paying that much to get access to that compute. You\u2019d probably argue that if everything was going swell at Grok and at xAI that they\u2019d be using all that compute to push their own models and help their own customers. But in this case, it\u2019s become sort of an AWS-type service where it\u2019s renting out its space and that\u2019s a good business. I\u2019m not going to deny that \u2014 who wouldn\u2019t want $1.25 billion a month in revenue? But it\u2019s not what that thing was built for in the first place.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Is there a way back for them to lead at the frontier? Is it, \u201cWe\u2019re going to raise $50 billion and maybe we\u2019ll just hire everybody from OpenAI\u201d?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Potentially. And if you look at some of the comments last week from Elon on X where he <a href=\"https:\/\/finance.yahoo.com\/markets\/stocks\/articles\/elon-musk-says-anthropic-spacex-073231400.html\">pushed back on the idea<\/a> that that Anthropic deal would be for the next three years, he said, \u201cWe reserve the right to take some of that compute back.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">He\u2019s suggesting maybe their models get good again to the point where they\u2019ll need that compute. He changes with the wind and his business plan changes with the wind. We\u2019ve seen that in the last six months to a year, these completely new businesses are coming out of nowhere. I don\u2019t think there\u2019s ever a \u201cnever\u201d or a \u201cnever again\u201d for Elon, and I guess he reserves the right to return to that at some point.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>I want to end where we started, which is in 2022 when Elon buys Twitter and renames it X. It\u2019s now famously the \u201ceverything app.\u201d We\u2019re clearly all doing our payments there all day long. You wrote a whole book about it. I made the prediction that buying Twitter would trash his reputation and maybe harm his companies.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Here we are now on the cusp of what might be one of the biggest IPOs in history. And it seems like in order to make it work, all of the rules of the game have had to be changed or rigged to favor Elon. If we were operating in a normal circumstance with the normal rules, with the normal index fund seizing rules, and he had to wait 90 days for profitability and people are looking at the actual fundamentals of this business, do you think there\u2019s a chance that this IPO is as big as it\u2019s going to end up being?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Probably not as big. It\u2019s hard to say. I still think there would be an incredible amount of hype around this company. You just don\u2019t get this type of excitement for any CEO beyond Elon Musk. For a lot of people, they don\u2019t necessarily pay attention to his politics or his everyday posting on Twitter, his hate speech or whatever thing he\u2019s concocting on the platform. They see him as a successful businessman, a generational talent that put Teslas on the roads, and they see that every day.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">They see that as a chance to invest in him. There would still be a large amount of retail, obviously not the same amount as having to force index funds to buy into a company. But that alone might drive a lot of success for this IPO. Again, it\u2019s a completely hypothetical situation. We\u2019ll have to see in two weeks.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>I\u2019m very curious. Do you think there are any other correctives? We\u2019ve talked about the market correctives, you talked about the index rules, you talked about the corporate governance issues. Are there any other correctives here, or are we just along for the ride?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Oh man, I\u2019ve thought about accountability for Elon for a long time. That\u2019s the point of our book. How do you hold someone that rich accountable? And I just think the normal levers of accountability for someone like that have gone out the window. Yeah, we\u2019re along for the ride.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">I have one example in this IPO, which is if you\u2019re a shareholder in SpaceX, you agree to arbitration for any issues around if you believe some kind of fraud or violation of securities law has happened. In the past, Elon has faced lawsuits from shareholders at Tesla and Twitter. At SpaceX, he\u2019s essentially removed that ability to pursue those types of shareholder lawsuits.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">He\u2019s stacking the deck for himself here and removing any of the obstacles he could face as a public company CEO and entrenched himself in this company, built a pretty big moat around himself. The impact of that will be seen for years to come.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><strong>Well, Ryan, it feels like no matter what, you and I are both going to end up as SpaceX shareholders. So I\u2019ll see you at the next meeting. Thank you so much for being on <\/strong><strong><em>Decoder<\/em><\/strong><strong>. This is great.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\">Thanks for having me. I\u2019ll see you on Mars.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _18mzr4ba _19wv7tc1\"><strong>[Laughs] One million strong, bro. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1044qizi _18mzr4b1 _18mzr4b0 _19wv7tc1\"><em><sub>Questions or comments? Hit us up at decoder@theverge.com. We really do read every email!<\/sub><\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--block-placement _1xorkac1 _1xorkac0 duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<div class=\"duet--article--action-box _1044qizj _1044qiz11 _19kgta32 _19kgta30\">\n<div class=\"_19kgta35 _19kgta33\">\n<h2 class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup _19kgta36\">Decoder with Nilay Patel<\/h2>\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup\">A podcast from <em>The Verge<\/em> about big ideas and other problems.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<p><a class=\"duet--cta--button _11kb06m2 _11kb06m0 _19kgta39 _19kgta37\" href=\"https:\/\/pod.link\/decoder\"><span>SUBSCRIBE NOW!<\/span><\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"tly2fw0\"><span class=\"tly2fw2\"><strong>Follow topics and authors<\/strong> from this story to see more like this in your personalized homepage feed and to receive email updates.<\/span><\/p>\n<ul class=\"tly2fw3\">\n<li id=\"follow-author-article_footer-dmcyOmF1dGhvclByb2ZpbGU6NjAx\"><span 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href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/939589\/ferrari-luce-jony-ive-vergecast\">Jony Ive\u2019s funky Ferrari<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card up4voo0 _7uluu53\">\n<div class=\"up4voo7 up4voop up4vooa _1cnxcye3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"YouTube takes baby steps to being a real podcast app\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;filter: url(%23b);)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/05\/youtube-on-the-go-mode-news.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=7.8125%2C0%2C84.375%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"up4voo6\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd7 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54 _7uluu55\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/streaming\/939051\/youtube-premium-podcast-features\">YouTube takes baby steps to being a real podcast app<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card up4voo0 _7uluu53\">\n<div class=\"up4voo7 up4voop up4vooa _1cnxcye3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Rivian\u2019s software chief thinks you don\u2019t need CarPlay or buttons\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;filter: url(%23b);)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/05\/DCD-Wassym-Bensaid.png?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0.027173913043484%2C0%2C99.945652173913%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1cnxcye1 _1cnxcye4\"><title>Play<\/title><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"up4voo6\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd7 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54 _7uluu55\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/929940\/rivian-wassym-bensaid-software-volkswagen-carplay-assistant-ai\">Rivian\u2019s software chief thinks you don\u2019t need CarPlay or buttons<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card up4voo0 _7uluu53\">\n<div class=\"up4voo7 up4voop up4vooa _1cnxcye3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"How clips ate the internet\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;filter: url(%23b);)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/05\/VRG_VST_0526_Site.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"up4voo6\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd7 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54 _7uluu55\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/937188\/clips-internet-feed-fitbit-air-vergecast\">How clips ate the internet<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_1hofmaw2\">\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj1 _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqjj _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqj7 _1ismqj6 _1ismqjc _1ismqjh _1cnxcye3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Casey Neistat\u2019s guide to posting every day\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjf i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;filter: url(%23b);)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/06\/Daily_Verge_Post.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=16.666666666667%2C0%2C66.666666666667%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Casey Neistat\u2019s guide to posting every day\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjg i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;filter: url(%23b);)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/06\/Daily_Verge_Post.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd3 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/941140\/casey-neistat-daily-vergecast\">Casey Neistat\u2019s guide to posting every day<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"jelpepd jelpep0\"><span><span class=\"_1g89o322 _19wv7tc5\"><span><span>David Pierce<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw2 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5 _1044qizs\"><time datetime=\"2026-06-01T19:07:03+00:00\">Jun 1<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj1 _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqj7 _1ismqj6 _1ismqjc _1ismqjh _1cnxcye3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"AI is blowing up music. How should the Grammys handle it?\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjf i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;filter: url(%23b);)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/06\/DCD_20260601_Mason_Grammys.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=16.666666666667%2C0%2C66.666666666667%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"AI is blowing up music. How should the Grammys handle it?\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjg i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;filter: url(%23b);)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/06\/DCD_20260601_Mason_Grammys.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1cnxcye1 _1cnxcye4\"><title>Play<\/title><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd3 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/940831\/ai-grammys-music-recording-harvey-mason\">AI is blowing up music. How should the Grammys handle it?<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"jelpepd jelpep0\"><span><span class=\"_1g89o322 _19wv7tc5\"><span><span>Nilay Patel<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw2 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5 _1044qizs\"><time datetime=\"2026-06-01T14:30:00+00:00\">Jun 1<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj1 _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqj7 _1ismqj6 _1ismqjc _1ismqjh _1cnxcye3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Jony Ive\u2019s funky Ferrari\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjf i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;filter: url(%23b);)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/05\/VRG_VST_052926_Site.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=16.666666666667%2C0%2C66.666666666667%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Jony Ive\u2019s funky Ferrari\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjg i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;filter: url(%23b);)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/05\/VRG_VST_052926_Site.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd3 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/939589\/ferrari-luce-jony-ive-vergecast\">Jony Ive\u2019s funky Ferrari<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"jelpepd jelpep0\"><span><span class=\"_1g89o322 _19wv7tc5\"><span><span>David Pierce<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw2 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5 _1044qizs\"><time datetime=\"2026-05-29T12:25:12+00:00\">May 29<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj1 _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqj7 _1ismqj6 _1ismqjc _1ismqjh _1cnxcye3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"YouTube takes baby steps to being a real podcast app\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjf i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;filter: url(%23b);)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/05\/youtube-on-the-go-mode-news.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=21.875%2C0%2C56.25%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"YouTube takes baby steps to being a real podcast app\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjg i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;filter: url(%23b);)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/05\/youtube-on-the-go-mode-news.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=7.8125%2C0%2C84.375%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd3 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/streaming\/939051\/youtube-premium-podcast-features\">YouTube takes baby steps to being a real podcast app<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"jelpepd jelpep0\"><span><span class=\"_1g89o322 _19wv7tc5\"><span><span>Stevie Bonifield<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw2 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5 _1044qizs\"><time datetime=\"2026-05-28T16:05:00+00:00\">May 28<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj1 _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqj7 _1ismqj6 _1ismqjc _1ismqjh _1cnxcye3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Rivian\u2019s software chief thinks you don\u2019t need CarPlay or buttons\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjf i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;filter: url(%23b);)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/05\/DCD-Wassym-Bensaid.png?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=16.684782608696%2C0%2C66.630434782609%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Rivian\u2019s software chief thinks you don\u2019t need CarPlay or buttons\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjg i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;filter: url(%23b);)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/05\/DCD-Wassym-Bensaid.png?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0.027173913043484%2C0%2C99.945652173913%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1cnxcye1 _1cnxcye4\"><title>Play<\/title><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd3 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/929940\/rivian-wassym-bensaid-software-volkswagen-carplay-assistant-ai\">Rivian\u2019s software chief thinks you don\u2019t need CarPlay or buttons<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"jelpepd jelpep0\"><span><span class=\"_1g89o322 _19wv7tc5\"><span><span>Nilay Patel<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw2 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5 _1044qizs\"><time datetime=\"2026-05-28T14:00:00+00:00\">May 28<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj1 _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqjk _1ismqjl _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqj7 _1ismqj6 _1ismqjc _1ismqjh _1cnxcye3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"How clips ate the internet\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjf i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;filter: url(%23b);)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/05\/VRG_VST_0526_Site.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=16.666666666667%2C0%2C66.666666666667%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"How clips ate the internet\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ismqjg i7ks070\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;filter: url(%23b);)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/05\/VRG_VST_0526_Site.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd3 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/937188\/clips-internet-feed-fitbit-air-vergecast\">How clips ate the internet<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"jelpepd jelpep0\"><span><span class=\"_1g89o322 _19wv7tc5\"><span><span>David Pierce<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw2 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5 _1044qizs\"><time datetime=\"2026-05-26T14:02:36+00:00\">May 26<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--ad--native-ad-linkset _14xz0mv4 _14xz0mv5 _14xz0mva hidden\" data-native-ad-id=\"container\">\n<div>\n<div class=\"visually-hidden\">\n<div class=\"dynamic-native-ad-native_ad_linkset_link\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/\" aria-label=\"Advertisement\"><\/p>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"_14xz0mv7\"><span data-native-ad-id=\"preamble\" class=\"_14xz0mv8 _14xz0mv9\">Advertiser Content From<\/span><\/p>\n<div><img data-native-ad-id=\"logo\" src alt=\"Sponsor Logo\" class=\"_14xz0mvg\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p class=\"_14xz0mvj\" data-native-ad-id=\"title\">This is the title for the native ad<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<p><\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"e3czlx6\">\n<div class=\"duet--layout--header-pattern _75r1tr2\">\n<div class=\"_75r1tr3\">\n<div class=\"duet--layout--page-header bpecqn0\">\n<div class=\"bpecqnj bpecqnf\">\n<h2 class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup bpecqno bpecqnm _19wv7tc2\">Top Stories<\/h2>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"sticky-nav-trigger\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_75r1tr4\">\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqjj _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"jelpep4 jelpep0\"><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw8 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5\"><time datetime=\"2026-06-04T12:30:00+00:00\">Two hours ago<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd7 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54 _7uluu55\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/ai-artificial-intelligence\/942909\/let-us-filter-ai-slop-google-youtube-meta-instagram-tiktok\">Let us filter AI slop, you cowards<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"jelpep4 jelpep0\"><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw8 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5\"><time datetime=\"2026-06-03T14:04:00+00:00\">Jun 3<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd7 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54 _7uluu55\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/ai-artificial-intelligence\/942242\/microsoft-build-ai-agents-openai-competition\">Microsoft and OpenAI broke up \u2014\u00a0now they\u2019re ready to fight<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"jelpep4 jelpep0\"><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw8 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5\"><time datetime=\"2026-06-03T15:30:15+00:00\">Jun 3<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd7 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54 _7uluu55\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/games\/942520\/playstation-wolverine-god-of-war-laufey-state-of-play-june-2026\">PlayStation is getting back to what it\u2019s good at<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"jelpep4 jelpep0\"><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw8 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5\"><time datetime=\"2026-06-03T17:45:35+00:00\">Jun 3<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd7 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54 _7uluu55\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/ai-artificial-intelligence\/942629\/as-ai-gets-better-it-reveals-an-empty-promise\">As AI gets better, it reveals an empty promise<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"jelpep4 jelpep0\"><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw8 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5\"><time datetime=\"2026-06-04T14:15:44+00:00\">An hour ago<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd7 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54 _7uluu55\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/tech\/943066\/tsmc-ai-demand-struggles\">TSMC struggles to keep up with AI demand: \u2018We can only support so much\u2019<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ismqj0 _7uluu53 _1ismqj5\">\n<div class=\"_1ismqji\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"jelpep4 jelpep0\"><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp g4xafw8 g4xafw0 _19wv7tc5\"><time datetime=\"2026-06-04T14:45:19+00:00\">34 minutes ago<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_19wv7tc9 _1d4s5vd7 _1d4s5vd0\"><a class=\"_7uluu50 _7uluu54 _7uluu55\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/policy\/943090\/supreme-court-backs-fcc-process-that-let-it-fine-carriers-over-location-sharing\">Supreme Court backs FCC process that let it fine carriers over location sharing.<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p><\/main><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Podcasts Close Podcasts Posts from this topic will be added to your daily email digest and your homepage feed. 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