{"id":1968338,"date":"2026-06-02T15:53:00","date_gmt":"2026-06-02T12:53:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/?p=1968338"},"modified":"2026-06-02T15:53:00","modified_gmt":"2026-06-02T12:53:00","slug":"steel-mountain-bike-philosophy-an-interview-with-cotic-founder-cy-turner","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/?p=1968338","title":{"rendered":"Steel mountain bike philosophy: An interview with Cotic founder Cy Turner"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"entry-content\">\n<div id=\"wp_content_article\" class=\"st_article_class\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><a href=\"https:\/\/images.singletracks.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/06\/Screenshot-2026-06-01-at-5.47.44-PM.png\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1170\" height=\"654\" src=\"\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg&apos;%20viewBox=&apos;0%200%201170%20654&apos;%3E%3C\/svg%3E\" data-src=\"https:\/\/images.singletracks.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/06\/Screenshot-2026-06-01-at-5.47.44-PM-1170x654.png\" alt class=\"wp-image-720690 lazy\" data-srcset=\"https:\/\/images.singletracks.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/06\/Screenshot-2026-06-01-at-5.47.44-PM-1170x654.png 1170w, https:\/\/images.singletracks.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/06\/Screenshot-2026-06-01-at-5.47.44-PM-750x419.png 750w, https:\/\/images.singletracks.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/06\/Screenshot-2026-06-01-at-5.47.44-PM-768x430.png 768w, https:\/\/images.singletracks.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/06\/Screenshot-2026-06-01-at-5.47.44-PM-1536x859.png 1536w, https:\/\/images.singletracks.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/06\/Screenshot-2026-06-01-at-5.47.44-PM-2048x1145.png 2048w, https:\/\/images.singletracks.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/06\/Screenshot-2026-06-01-at-5.47.44-PM-600x336.png 600w\" data-sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1170px) 100vw, 1170px\"><\/a><\/figure>\n<p>Cy Turner is the founder and owner of UK-based Cotic Cycles. The Cotic brand got its start in 2003 and is known for high-quality, handcrafted steel bikes, ranging from hardtails to full-suspension bikes to gravel bikes.\u00a0<\/p>\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>What were you looking for in a hardtail in 2001 that you couldn\u2019t find back then?<\/li>\n<li>Where does the Cotic name come from?<\/li>\n<li>Why build mountain bikes from steel? Why did you stop using titanium?<\/li>\n<li>Why does it seem like so many British bikes made from steel? Are most of your buyers located in the UK, or do you see a decent amount of demand internationally?\u00a0<\/li>\n<li>Why move away from matched 29\u2033 wheels for the recently updated Cotic Jeht trail bike?<\/li>\n<li>Do you see mountain bike geometry continuing to evolve, or is it pretty well optimized at this point?<\/li>\n<li>Have you ridden a bike with 32-inch wheels? What\u2019s your perspective on the bigger wheel size?<\/li>\n<li>The Cotic Rocket is one of the few high-end electric bikes with a steel frame. What made you want to design an e-bike?\u00a0<\/li>\n<li>What\u2019s next for Cotic?<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Learn more about Cotic at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.cotic.co.uk\/\">cotic.co.uk<\/a>. <\/p>\n<p><strong>This episode is sponsored by Greater Sandpoint Chamber of Commerce<\/strong>.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-001d03332d60cab58318ec49d0524b9a singl-content\" id=\"singl-001d03332d60cab58318ec49d0524b9a\"><\/div>\n<p>If you\u2019re looking for your next mountain bike destination that offers just about everything, put Sandpoint, Idaho at the top of your list! The Lower Basin trail system serves up world-class riding through towering timber and across massive granite rock slabs, with trails for every rider \u2014 from technical black-diamond descents to fast, flowy cross-country loops.<\/p>\n<p>For excellent park-style riding, head up to Schweitzer Mountain Resort with dedicated downhill trails and e-bike access to more than two dozen trails. Or pedal from town to the Pine Street Woods trail system, where the trails range from flowy to technical.<\/p>\n<p>When you\u2019re ready to take a break from the trails, Lake Pend Oreille is right there for camping, boating, swimming, or even standup paddleboarding. And after a big day outdoors, head into the town of Sandpoint, where you\u2019ll find a great selection of bars and restaurants to relax and refuel.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Get all the details to plan your perfect getaway at\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/visitsandpoint.com\/\">visitsandpoint.com<\/a>. The trails and the good times are waiting for you when you Visit Idaho!<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-cbeb43d7c16d1c20bc81415378b0248f singl-content\" id=\"singl-cbeb43d7c16d1c20bc81415378b0248f\"><\/div>\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Never Miss an Episode<\/h3>\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Listen on <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0VxNMzrUoUs7wz3FsyI83p\">Spotify<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Listen on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/singletracks-mountain-bike-news\/id1046094700?uo=4\">Apple Podcasts<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Listen on <a href=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuc2luZ2xldHJhY2tzLmNvbS9mZWVkL3BvZGNhc3Qv\">Google Podcasts<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Listen on <a href=\"https:\/\/www.stitcher.com\/show\/singletracks-mtb-news\">Stitcher<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Listen on <a href=\"https:\/\/overcast.fm\/itunes1046094700\">Overcast<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Get the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.singletracks.com\/feed\/podcast\/\">RSS Feed<\/a><\/li>\n<li>View all <a href=\"https:\/\/www.singletracks.com\/podcast\/\">Podcast Episodes<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-automated-transcript\">Automated transcript<\/h2>\n<p>Jeff Barber 0:01<br \/>Hey everybody, welcome to the Singletracks podcast. My name is Jeff, and today my guest is Cy Turner, the founder and owner of UK-based Cotic Cycles. The Cotic brand got its start in 2003 and is known for high-quality, handcrafted steel bikes ranging from hardtails to full suspension bikes to gravel bikes. Thanks for joining me, Cy.<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 0:23<br \/>Pleasure. Thanks for having me.<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 0:25<br \/>So, I believe actually in 2001 you designed your first bike, which you described as a modern steel trail hardtail, and that bike eventually became the Cotic Soul. So, what were you looking for in a hardtail back then that you couldn\u2019t find kind of on the market at that time?<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 0:46<br \/>Okay, so what it was, although that wasn\u2019t exactly the first bike I designed, it was the first bike I designed I got made. I\u2019d been doodling and designing bikes and designing parts for bikes since I was about, since I was about 15. So I was always super into it, and yeah, I actually designed a front hub, you know, in the middle of the anodized aluminum boom in the, wow, in the mid 90s, and my dad had it made for my 17th birthday.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-792493f62cf16853db330c2b2ff0ce7b singl-content\" id=\"singl-792493f62cf16853db330c2b2ff0ce7b\"><\/div>\n<p>Jeff Barber 1:22<br \/>So you designed it, though, like, was it, was it like a unique shape, or like, what, what were you doing with that?<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 1:28<br \/>No, I took out, you know, I was, this was before my engineering training, so I was just taking elements that I was reading from the magazines, which I used to read voraciously, and thinking about things, so it was, it kind of looked a little bit, a little bit wrinkle, but then it had these oversized end caps, like the bullseye hubs had to kind of, because that was supposedly make your fork stiffer, even though we had like rigid forks.<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 1:57<br \/>Okay.<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 1:58<br \/>So yeah, so that was that was that was that, but yeah, so the Cotic I designed a hardtail because even though I started in cross country, I got my first mountain bike in like 1987 and I used to race cross country a little bit because that was all there was to do in the 90s, I did get into downhilling for a little bit, and so, like, late 90s, early noughties, I did, did some downhilling until I got too scared, but coming out of downhilling, even back then, you know, we, we were on pretty, you know, 150 mil, 160 mil suspension. We were using pretty sticky big tires, we were using disc brakes, we had fairly short stems and riser bars, you know. It was, and I sort of got back on my old Kona hardtail and and I\u2019d like a 98 Caldera, and it was, it was just all wrong, like, you know.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-924f63eb708d095cd76b10737146cf21 singl-content\" id=\"singl-924f63eb708d095cd76b10737146cf21\"><\/div>\n<p>Jeff Barber 3:12<br \/>Compared to a downhill bike for sure.<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 3:14<br \/>You know, the suspension didn\u2019t work, it had rim brakes, I think, at the maximum tire I could fit in with like a 2.1. And  it didn\u2019t have, you know, had these really narrow handlebars and like 110 mil stem and all of this kind of stuff, so, so, so I modified that, so I put like a shortest, I put like a 90 mil stem and some two inch riser bars on it and some 100 mil forks, and it was front disc brake, and it was kind of a bit better, but it clearly wasn\u2019t good.<\/p>\n<p>So what I did was basically say, well, I want all of these elements, I want the riser bars, and I want the shorter stem, but I actually want to be able to fit the bike with when I\u2019ve got the shorter stem, and I want these 100 mil forks, and I want some 2.4 inch tires, and all of these kind of things. So I basically measured the Kona, and then rejigged the geometry back to what it should be, with the 100 millimeter, you know, basically suspension corrected the bike, then stretched it, because you know, for the shorter stem added some elements that I\u2019ve always liked about various steel bikes. I had, I bought Greg Fuquay with my, with my university holiday job money in 1996 which was, which, bless you, Greg, it was a terrible handling bike, but it was absolutely beautiful, like you know, had loads of really beautiful steel features. I\u2019ve always loved Keith Bontrager, is a massive hero of mine, I always loved his bike. Six, so I added these elements to it, and I knew about Reynolds 853 because I actually had, I actually had a rally downhill bike made out of Reynolds 853<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-9686da139460c671644b38bec6e7aa8e singl-content\" id=\"singl-9686da139460c671644b38bec6e7aa8e\"><\/div>\n<p>So I had, like, you know, it\u2019s kind of, kind of, kind of funny when, when we came out with the Rocket in, you know, in 2012 and everyone\u2019s going, you know, like a six inch travel full suspension steel mountain bike. What the hell? What are you smoking? And I was like, I was riding one of these 15 years ago. This isn\u2019t new to me, you know. So, so, yeah, so, so, yeah. So, I decided to, because I always thought, you know, really bring British, bring, you know, growing up in sort of shops in the likes of 80s, 90s, you sort of know about rentals, you know about steel, and 853 was the best steel, so I thought, well, I can make out of this stuff, and it\u2019s super strong, so I can make it a little bit thinner, and all of this, and so it was all of that kind of stuff, and it was also for me about getting a beautiful steel bike, modern steel bike, that modern steel hardtail thing was exactly it, because the only new steel bikes on the market at that point were still very retro. There weren\u2019t very many of them left, and they were all still designed in 1996 because like anything progressive, like the Cove Stiffy, or some of those other things like that, they were all aluminum.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-3dbb1fe8405c45a5fd5a375cb844c2e3 singl-content\" id=\"singl-3dbb1fe8405c45a5fd5a375cb844c2e3\"><\/div>\n<p>So I tried aluminum, I tried aluminum hardtails, particularly, and I just didn\u2019t, but they were super stiff, and I just didn\u2019t mind them. I\u2019ve always loved the feel of softer riding bikes. I just want something that rides like a steel bike that is a steel bike, but I want to bolt all of these modern things and have all these modern features on. Fortunately for me, in terms of starting a business, hardly anyone else had thought of doing that at that point  so we were pretty unusual. I wouldn\u2019t say we were completely unique in the market, but we were very early.<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 7:12<br \/>Other people were thinking kind of along the same lines. Back then, people weren\u2019t talking about like hardcore hardtails, that wasn\u2019t a thing, right?<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 7:24<br \/>Well, it kind of was in the UK, that\u2019s the thing. It was like it was a very distinctly UK thing. It was like there was the guy who helped me get into business was a guy called Brad Richards, who was already doing on one at the time, and they were already doing things in and around this kind of idea, and then not long after, there was a couple of other sort of small brands doing sort of small batch Taiwan stuff as that began to open up.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-a234405ab5c980eb5352e7f3a7c7dedb singl-content\" id=\"singl-a234405ab5c980eb5352e7f3a7c7dedb\"><\/div>\n<p>But they were all, they were all quite quintessentially British, like, because at the time the thing about Britain is it\u2019s a little bit like the Pacific Northwest or BC in a lot of ways, yeah, in that the weather is temperate enough that we don\u2019t get snow in the winter, so we can still ride through the winter, but the weather\u2019s really wet and awful, so, and at the time, up at certainly up until maybe 10 years ago, the amount of kit you would just wear out riding through a winter, you know, like drive trains, brake pads, you know, frame bearings, you know, the one of the reasons why hardcore hardtails became a thing in the UK is because basically, if you had a full suspension, you know, if you had an early naughty full suspension bike and rode it through the winter, it literally dissolved, you know, just thought it would just, you know, your frame could just be a pile of expensive trash by March, so we wanted something that had good handling, like those bikes, but and also we don\u2019t tend, we tend certainly in the North of England, we tend to have short, steep-sided valleys, so we didn\u2019t, don\u2019t have these long, flat out long descents, where, where you get, you know, where you just get beat up for minutes at a time, you get quite steep, short technical kind of downhills, and again, like a hard tail is less of a performance impediment to those kind of things. Yeah, and then if you can build a nice steel one, where you just take in a little bit of the edge off some of those bumps, and like got a bit of give and go. Then again, it just sort of helps that kind of play into the advantages of that kind of thing.<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 9:49<br \/>So, tell me, where does the Cotic name come from? How\u2019d you come up with that?<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-b6630d5114f7abbbc8fe0f1e7d030b57 singl-content\" id=\"singl-b6630d5114f7abbbc8fe0f1e7d030b57\"><\/div>\n<p>Cy Turner 9:54<br \/>It\u2019s a silly nickname at university.<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 9:56<br \/>Oh, it\u2019s your nickname?<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 10:02<br \/>I got it, so it was ironic, because I am, because, because, because I was mostly the sensible one in our group in university, but my last name is Turner, that was already gone, you know, CT \u2014 GT is too close \u2014 Gary Turner. Paul Turner founded RockShox, there\u2019s Turner\u2019s everywhere,<\/p>\n<p>So we had to come up with something, and even though it\u2019s on balance, a branding person probably would have said, well, people can say it wrong and spell it wrong, and all of those kind of things, because we get a lot of Cotic and, like, you know, but particularly in the UK, because of various regional accents, is Cotic.<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 10:51<br \/>Okay, that makes sense, though. Psychotic, I love that.<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 10:54<br \/>So, so, yeah, but also because it\u2019s kind of, it\u2019s almost symmetrical, and it\u2019s almost palindromic, so we could do like some interesting things graphically with it, because certainly, which we did for a while, so yeah, so yeah, so that was where it came from.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-c25e7a87ec636d137dfc5e2b60265ca2 singl-content\" id=\"singl-c25e7a87ec636d137dfc5e2b60265ca2\"><\/div>\n<p>Jeff Barber 11:10<br \/>Awesome, so you kind of touched on this in your previous answer, but I\u2019m I\u2019m curious, why build mountain bikes from steel, and I\u2019ve also heard, and this is kind of my next question, maybe you can kind of answer it all at once. I\u2019ve heard various reasons for why a lot of British brands, in particular, use steel to build bikes, so you mentioned, you know, it is more, it just has a better ride feel than aluminum, but I\u2019m wondering if there are other reasons as well.<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 11:42<br \/>I mean, initially it was all about the ride feel and the look, because that was what I was searching for in that steel hardtail.<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 11:50<br \/>Because you can have thinner tubes, or you know, smaller diameter tubes.<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 11:56<br \/>Yeah. So basically the thing with it is that ride feel the ride feel in the stiffness of a frame is a combination of the intrinsic stiffness of the material, which  is called the Young\u2019s modulus, and the sectional properties of the tube. How physical that, and that\u2019s to do with how big it is and how thick it is.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-d4c4b2f1198eba617f68e8575e097f13 singl-content\" id=\"singl-d4c4b2f1198eba617f68e8575e097f13\"><\/div>\n<p>Jeff Barber 12:17<br \/>Okay,<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 12:17<br \/>Now aluminum is actually the intrinsic stiffness of aluminum is actually a third of what of what steel is, because it\u2019s, but because it\u2019s, it\u2019s so, it\u2019s so light, but also so relatively weak compared to steel, you have to use it in these quite big sections with quite thick walls, so the section property comes to dominate the feel, so it\u2019s these great big stiff tubes multiplied by relatively small intrinsic stiffness, whereas steel\u2019s the complete opposite, it\u2019s wildly stiff as a material and really, really strong, so you can use them in these tiny thin sections and small tubes, so this, so the actual tube, the actual physical stiffness of the tube, rather of the tube, is a lot lower, and the steel is intrinsically strong and stiff enough in itself to let, let that happen, and that gives that\u2019s what gives you the deflection and the ability to breathe with the trail, like they like steel, good steel bikes do.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-f67cf9d17a1e10f24dadad061c75d740 singl-content\" id=\"singl-f67cf9d17a1e10f24dadad061c75d740\"><\/div>\n<p>So, I don\u2019t know why British, but I don\u2019t know. I think it\u2019s, it\u2019s possibly a nostalgic thing, because I mean, aluminum came along quite late, and it was seen, and it was very much pushed by the by the mountain bike kind of side of things, and it seemed as quite cool and space aged, and things like this, but you know, we grew up riding these thin tubed steel bikes made by brands like Rally, when they made them, when they made everything in Nottingham, and that was just our Mar and Pa bike shop, you know, we used to get, though they were the bikes we got for Christmas when we were kids, kind of, you know, like we grew up with. And then when, you know, and when you and if you did go road racing or doing something like that, the guys were all on hand built steel bikes, right? You know, high, you know, the high-performance road brand thing wasn\u2019t a thing back then. If you were really into road racing, you, there were all of these local bike shops that would make things out of Reynolds 653 or 753 and they, they\u2019d custom make you a frame, and that was how performance, yeah. So, so we just, I guess, we just had a tradition of like high-performance steel frames, so there\u2019s that, always been that affinity with that,<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-3cc0d953f72a36bbbce452a393560a41 singl-content\" id=\"singl-3cc0d953f72a36bbbce452a393560a41\"><\/div>\n<p>Jeff Barber 14:51<br \/>And Reynolds is a, is a British company, right? And the tubing actually comes from Britain, so I\u2019ve heard. I\u2019ve heard people speculate that maybe it\u2019s a cost thing too, like it\u2019s cheaper because you\u2019re not importing materials.<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 15:08<br \/>It\u2019s not really that, because it\u2019s Reynolds, Reynolds 853 is Reynolds 853 is wildly expensive as materials.<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 15:18<br \/>I wonder if it\u2019s cheaper for you than say, like an American builder to get it?<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 15:23<br \/>Well, I mean, it\u2019s certainly cheaper for builders like that, but then, for you know, for a lot of the, for a lot of the history of Cotic, I was getting Reynolds 853 tubes made in Birmingham and shipped to Taiwan and built into frames and then shipped back again. So it\u2019s like, you know, so I don\u2019t think there\u2019s a lot in that. I think it\u2019s there\u2019s definitely an affinity to the brand for UK builders, and 853 is demonstrably stronger, and therefore you know the ability to build lighter or better riding frames, or more durable frames, compared to a heat-treated chromoly, or certainly compared to a regular chromoly, is so there\u2019s there\u2019s a performance advantage.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-5d2fa5b84ef5b0d6e0e78ed39c14c9ec singl-content\" id=\"singl-5d2fa5b84ef5b0d6e0e78ed39c14c9ec\"><\/div>\n<p>But yeah, I don\u2019t really know why, why steel is such a thing with UK brands. I just know that I just, I really love, I\u2019ve, you know, I guess I grew up with them, I always loved how they felt, and then when I tried something different, I really didn\u2019t like that, and I was just fortunate. Well, maybe it is the shed builder kind, or the like, the custom builder thing that is the reason for it, because actually I, I accidentally own a bike brand, I designed, I designed the soul, and I was quite a long way down the road of getting a guy called Dave Yates, who was a really famous frame builder in the UK, to make it for me.<\/p>\n<p>So there was this whole culture of like, if you had an idea and it was going to be made out of steel, you could relatively affordably just get us, get a guy to make it for them, right? Yeah, it was only a chance meeting with Brand that introduced me to the idea of actually doing it as a commercial enterprise.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-bcd89881c03731ba7a48dd0bdbf46302 singl-content\" id=\"singl-bcd89881c03731ba7a48dd0bdbf46302\"><\/div>\n<p>Jeff Barber 17:09<br \/>Yeah, interesting.<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 17:11<br \/>So, I think there\u2019s.. I think there\u2019s an element of culture there, potentially. So, yeah, I don\u2019t know why, but certainly for me it\u2019s all about it, was all about the ride feel, and I, you know, and I definitely have a preference for the look of it, and the, the, you know, the clean lines, and all of that kind of thing. Yeah, and then as time\u2019s gone on, and I\u2019ve learned more about the world, and learnt more about everything, really, the durability and the ability to make something that lasts is really important, and ultimately, when we did our sustainability assessment a few years ago, it became clear that it was by far the lowest impact material to build a bike frame out of, so it all just made sense.<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 18:04<br \/>I was gonna ask about that, because there was a time when you were doing, I think, a few frames in titanium, is that right? And yeah, and a lot of people see titanium as like an upgrade over steel, I mean, it\u2019s it\u2019s got some similar characteristics,<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-48ea30211edd274e6e0a33c349c0e1af singl-content\" id=\"singl-48ea30211edd274e6e0a33c349c0e1af\"><\/div>\n<p>Cy Turner 18:20<br \/>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 18:20<br \/>Talk about why you decided against doing titanium.<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 18:26<br \/>So, there was a couple of.. well, ultimately, it was the sustainability thing, like when we did the sustainability assessment, we found out that although titanium has the potential to last longer than steel in as an intrinsic item, it\u2019s actually nearly as you know, generates nearly as much carbon dioxide as carbon fiber.<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 18:52<br \/>In terms of like mining and processing?<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 18:55<br \/>Yeah, yeah, because it\u2019s incredibly hard to make in the first place. Titanium, is the fourth most abundant element in the earth\u2019s crust. It\u2019s  everywhere it\u2019s in white paint. Titanium dioxide is the dye in white paint everywhere. But it doesn\u2019t like being broken away from that oxygen in titanium dioxide, and you have to use a huge amount of electricity to do that.<\/p>\n<p>And as a result of it being so reactive, it\u2019s also almost impossible to recycle. That\u2019s the big, that\u2019s the kicker, that\u2019s the thing that really puts it in the same category as, as carbon fiber, very, very hard to recycle.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-6266ae448ba7df050e8ace900644342f singl-content\" id=\"singl-6266ae448ba7df050e8ace900644342f\"><\/div>\n<p>Jeff Barber 19:34<br \/>Really?<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 19:35<br \/>Yeah, because the moment you heat it up, it just reacts with the air and turns into it, turns into white dye, which is pretty much worthless.<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 19:42<br \/>Huh, wow, yeah. I had no idea. I mean, you just assume that\u2019s a metal, like aluminum or steel, where, yeah, you just heat it up, melt it down, and turn it back into another tube.<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 19:54<br \/>Not at all, not at all.<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 19:56<br \/>Interesting.<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 19:57<br \/>So, so we found that. So that was a so that that was the driving force behind the final decision, because and we went public with that, because we had a, we had a history of doing titanium versions of our high-end 853 mountain bike and gravel bike frames, you know, through the years we did a, we did a product called the Soda, which was the, which was the titanium version of the Soul, and then the Solaris, which are our mountain bike hardtails. And we did the Tonic, which was our, which was a titanium version of the Escapade gravel bike.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-bc823165f5be83c71a702b57f21a2f7b singl-content\" id=\"singl-bc823165f5be83c71a702b57f21a2f7b\"><\/div>\n<p>And when we introduced the Cascade, which is our kind of drop bar adventure bike in 2022 it was quite unusual in the market at the time, and it was selling really, really well, but we were beginning to get quite regular. When are you going to do a titanium version? And any, and it was like, well, we\u2019re not, and I thought, we, you know, I thought, you know, if we\u2019ve had 10 people ask us about this, there\u2019s going to be 100 people out there wondering, or 50 people out there sitting waiting for us to do a limited run of Thai ones, because so I, so I put it out there, and it just in the typical way of the internet, because it was slightly contentious, and it got people mashing the comments buttons, that\u2019s my second most viewed reel on Instagram.<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 21:24<br \/>Oh, wow.<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 21:26<br \/>Yeah, 70,000 views, something like that. Wow, so yeah, but the other thing is, is that over the years we\u2019ve done titanium with four different vendors and they are some of, and all of them have had trouble with quality at some point. Titanium is not an easy thing to get in good quality, and it is not an easy thing to make consistently, and like, so you know, and you can\u2019t tell until the customer\u2019s got it, and they\u2019ve got this beautiful thing, and you\u2019ve got 95% of the customers of that that batch who\u2019ve probably still got that frame. And then you\u2019ve got five of the 5% of them where they got a crack within 18 months, And it\u2019s just, and that is just that is that is the reality of working with titanium. It doesn\u2019t matter who you do it with, unless you are using aerospace certified material, which nobody wants to pay for, and unless you are x-raying every frame, which nobody wants to pay for.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-e815c527dc18db92525a6cdc89cea2e3 singl-content\" id=\"singl-e815c527dc18db92525a6cdc89cea2e3\"><\/div>\n<p>You cannot guarantee it, so you just get this wastage, which is just so well, it\u2019s wasteful, and it\u2019s horrendous, and it\u2019s emotionally difficult for us and the customer. So it\u2019s just, it was, it was too, it was, it was not, it was just getting too hard, and also it just now was beginning to run against our, you know, general philosophy of running the business,<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 23:03<br \/>Yeah, interesting. Well, let\u2019s talk about another controversial decision that you made. You just updated the Cotic Jeht Trail bike, and this third generation is dedicated mixed wheel. So I\u2019m curious, why did you move away from matched 29 inch wheels for that bike?<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 23:24<br \/>I couldn\u2019t make it handle as well. That is the  simple answer. I\u2019m six foot three, and I have been 29 a full 20 niner for life. You know, I was very early on 29 inch wheels, and I was very early on long geometry 29 inch wheels, and I tried the mullet set up on a modified version of one of the drop link bikes a few years ago, and I kind of couldn\u2019t see the point.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-a25479f4dee820e788156873f0bcddcb singl-content\" id=\"singl-a25479f4dee820e788156873f0bcddcb\"><\/div>\n<p>But the way we evolved, but we went when we developed the Rocket e-bike, the thing that mixed wheel size does is it makes the bike want to turn. It makes turn initiation incredibly easy. The moment you even, you get the bike even vaguely off axis, it just wants to change direction, and that was really important with the e bike, because during the e bike project we started full 29 and quite a bit, and and they were quite a bit heavier than the Rockets ended up, and you just come barreling into a corner and try and change direction, and the mass just wanted to take you straight on, and you were just trying to wrestle it into the corner, whereas as soon as we tried even the heavy bikes, as soon as we tried them with the mixed wheel setup, that meant that you didn\u2019t have to work as hard to get it to change direction, and then once it was actually moving in that direction, the weight would then drop the bike into the corner. Corner and it would rip round,<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-8cce5df52395af2d3d25510fff21e2f4 singl-content\" id=\"singl-8cce5df52395af2d3d25510fff21e2f4\"><\/div>\n<p>So, what we then had to do, but then what we found was, is that with the, with this sort of classic enduro geometry that we were using at the time, which had a head angle in the 60 threes and quite a unlike a more rearward weight bias, what happened then was, is that with the weight, and then the mullet setup with that head angle, and that kind of weight distribution, is that you\u2019ve got a lot of flop and jackknifing, so if you\u2019re in a slower, techier situation, if you got slightly away from the away from upright, the bike would just, just sort of kind of flop over.<\/p>\n<p>And also, again, because the weight was quite, was a little bit way away from the front wheel, it was quite hard to even with the mullet to get the bike to turn in, and so it\u2019s a bit still a bit too stable, so we\u2019re kind of looking to dial agility back into the bike and move the weight forward.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-dfe85525aed4cccd0af1e794ee1b7692 singl-content\" id=\"singl-dfe85525aed4cccd0af1e794ee1b7692\"><\/div>\n<p>So we grew the back end to push the weight forward, which is better for technical climbing, which is good when you\u2019ve got a motor as well.<\/p>\n<p>And then we steepen the head angle to get a little bit more weight on the front wheel, and a little, and move away from that kind of floppy, jackknify feel, because that, you know, that that that kind of dial some agility back in, and then all of that combined, and then some other things, you know, we dropped the BB, because you can use tiny cranks on a on an e bike, and you can grow the grow the reach, which grows the which grows the stack, so you stand a bit taller in the middle as well, and all of these little evolutions of the long shot geometry just turned the Rocket into this bike that I just loved riding it for, how it handled.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-25c1a6861f3e86326d4e1dc9a15059fe singl-content\" id=\"singl-25c1a6861f3e86326d4e1dc9a15059fe\"><\/div>\n<p>The fact that it was an e-bike was sort of like a secondary, you know, the fact that I could, like, you know, just power back up the hill was great, but it was actually, I just loved how it handled. So the next to the, so that you know, there\u2019s logical extension at the end of that project was, well, we need to build a conventional version of this, and see if that\u2019s still there.<\/p>\n<p>It wasn\u2019t even thinking, is this going to be the next Jeht or the thing? It was just like the next bit of research we need to do is that does this work on an unpowered bike?<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 27:16<br \/>Yeah, and does the Rocket have, like, is it similarly a trail bike, like similar amount of travel?<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 27:21<br \/>Yeah, it\u2019s exactly the same. 150 rear, 150 They share the, they shared the rear end. The rear end is completely shared. Okay, they have different pivot points for the to tweak the kinematic, but the actual hardware is identical.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-96f59c7f6a984765d475e4bfc3875834 singl-content\" id=\"singl-96f59c7f6a984765d475e4bfc3875834\"><\/div>\n<p>So you build, so we build a front end. Yeah, the magic is still there. It\u2019s just there\u2019s just charisma about the bike, for want of a better word, which is really, and I had a play around with the with a modified version of the current Jeht, to you know, to try and get, you know, just to, you know, give basically give me broadly the same layout, but with 29 inch wheels. Yeah, and ultimately it just wasn\u2019t as much fun to ride.<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 28:11<br \/>Had you ridden mullet bikes before?<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 28:15<br \/>Not for any extended period of time. I rode a mullet version of my Rocket Max 5 or 6 years ago.<\/p>\n<p>When we first started offering the mullet option on the drop link bikes, which was using an angle set, just to, just to sort of tweak the geometry back the right way, if you put a, put a rear wheel in it. So, yeah, I rode it like that, but for me that didn\u2019t, you know, that didn\u2019t give me any, that that bite didn\u2019t, the turn in the extra turn in didn\u2019t give me any advantages compared to rolling on the 29 inch wheels, there was something about, but with the extra tweaks to the geometry that we\u2019ve done here, I just, I just couldn\u2019t see past how\u2026<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-01da3d02fd8ab8acf15a74cc735e1a47 singl-content\" id=\"singl-01da3d02fd8ab8acf15a74cc735e1a47\"><\/div>\n<p>Jeff Barber 29:10<br \/>You hit the magic combination, it sounds like,<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 29:13<br \/>You know we played around with the bottom bracket, you know, I\u2019ve got these like adjustable bottom brackets, and like, you know, and we had, you know, little bit, you know, we\u2019re talking millimeters here and there. We were just tweaking this until we got this, you know, until and genuinely, the when I got the layout that became the production bike, you know, it was close and it was good, and it was like it\u2019s not quite as good as the Rocket, but it\u2019s nice, maybe it\u2019s the, maybe it\u2019s because it doesn\u2019t have the weight and things, and I just made a couple more tweaks, and I, I made a turn in the car park, and just went, this is, this is going to be it, you could just bingo, it\u2019s so wild, how you can just feel, and it does, it just make it, it. It makes me feel like a hero every time I ride it. It just like I love writing it so much.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-c940788c0a33f316abf7490c08173524 singl-content\" id=\"singl-c940788c0a33f316abf7490c08173524\"><\/div>\n<p>Jeff Barber 30:05<br \/>Yeah, that\u2019s awesome. Well, let\u2019s wait a little farther into the controversy here around wheel sizes. Yeah, and I\u2019m curious, I\u2019m same height as you, we\u2019re taller than average. What do you think about 3229 mullet, like, would it, would it give you those that same feel, especially for a taller rider? Or do you think it\u2019s like some magic combo of 27 five and 29?<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 30:34<br \/>I don\u2019t know, because I haven\u2019t tried.<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 30:35<br \/>Okay, is that something you want to try? Are you curious about it?<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 30:38<br \/>Yeah, definitely. I mean, in theory, that it should have the exaggerated, it should have the exaggerated turning, because that\u2019s to do with the geometry of the two different, the tilted steering axle axis, rather than anything to do with an intrinsically 275 rear wheel, yeah, so you should get some of that. I mean, obviously, there will be other elements to it, in terms of the weight and gyroscopes of the bigger wheels being a little bit more resistant to changing direction. That\u2019s probably minor. I don\u2019t know. I\u2019m hand-waving here. I don\u2019t know. I think a mullet, a mullet version would be interesting to try.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-5be30cb630da3bb350a2cfefd53e8ba7 singl-content\" id=\"singl-5be30cb630da3bb350a2cfefd53e8ba7\"><\/div>\n<p>Jeff Barber 31:28<br \/>But it would be hard to fit a lot of riders, I\u2019m guessing. The geometry that works for a small or even a medium would probably be a challenge.<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 31:37<br \/>Yeah, absolutely, because I mean, and it\u2019s not an actually with, with relative, you know, I\u2019ve done a little bit of work on like layouts and things, haven\u2019t built anything yet, but we have done a little bit of work on this, and actually, in terms of things like toe overlap and things like that on a mountain bike with modern geometry, you could, you, you know, you don\u2019t really run into any issues there.  The main issue is bar height for smaller riders, and as much as bar height is going up for a lot of riders, this whole stand tall thing that we\u2019re, that we\u2019ve done with the Jeht, you stand up in the middle of the bike instead of moving your ass backwards, because that keeps your weight a bit more centered, you\u2019re really going to be pushing the bars quite high with once you get suspension forks involved of any level of travel, on medium-sized bikes, let alone small ones.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-9684c6ebbf24e73c76e7233e03a37469 singl-content\" id=\"singl-9684c6ebbf24e73c76e7233e03a37469\"><\/div>\n<p>So you know, I don\u2019t know, I don\u2019t know, we\u2019re gonna, we\u2019ve like, I say, we\u2019re gonna, we\u2019re gonna watch it and do a little bit of wait and see on this, yeah, because I know a lot of people move very quickly.<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 33:00<br \/>Yeah, a lot of people have moved quickly, but in general, like mountain bikers are not, they\u2019re not convinced, and they\u2019re very skeptical.<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 33:09<br \/>Yeah, and rightly so, yeah, rightly so. I mean, it\u2019s, and you know, it\u2019s not, it\u2019s not like, you know, and certainly from the point of view of a functional trail bike, you know, less so in the gravel bike packing space, where you can, you know, where you, where a rigid fork is more appropriate, but you know what you\u2019re talking about, like a proper trail bike, where you want, you know, 120, 130 mil, 140 millimeters of travel. Nobody\u2019s making forks for that. No, no, no, it\u2019s not like Rock Shox or Fox have got.  You know, all those bikes came out of sea otter, none of them had a Pike on them.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-852de1629879dfe9be65d1dcbec10cc5 singl-content\" id=\"singl-852de1629879dfe9be65d1dcbec10cc5\"><\/div>\n<p>Jeff Barber 33:52<br \/>Oh man, if there was a Pike\u2026<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 33:55<br \/>So none of the, none of the volume suspension people have pushed their chips into the middle of the table yet, and that to me probably says as much as anything else.<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 34:13<br \/>Yeah, no shade on the people who do make forks currently for that wheel size, but you know, yeah, a lot of us are waiting for more. How can you make a good bike if you\u2019re not able to put like the best fork on it and suspension stuff, you know?<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 34:29<br \/>Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I mean, I can, I can understand why there\u2019s a lot of bikes out there with the Intend forks on them, because they\u2019re brilliant and they\u2019re adaptable to 32 inch, but they\u2019re also 1800 euros.<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 34:43<br \/>Cost is definitely a factor.<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 34:46<br \/>You know, Cornelius has offered me a really nice price on a pair, and even I\u2019m just going, you know, they\u2019re really beautiful, but yeah, it\u2019s, you know, that\u2019s that, that\u2019s a serious consideration when you\u2019re talking about needing a frame and wheels and tires, and\u2026<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-4c0dded944116e3b8564b9ad3dd7ee37 singl-content\" id=\"singl-4c0dded944116e3b8564b9ad3dd7ee37\"><\/div>\n<p>Jeff Barber 35:12<br \/>A new bike rack for your car\u2026<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 35:16<br \/>Yeah, I don\u2019t know, it\u2019s, I\u2019m like, I say, I\u2019m a little bit wait and see at the moment. I immediately threw it on our Cascade, which is our like drop bar mountain bike, so it\u2019s so it\u2019s, you know, it already uses 29 proper 29 mountain bike wheels boost spacing, and I immediately threw 32 inch wheels at that, and sort of saw, like, on the CAD, just to see what that looked like, but again, without doing a lot of research into geometry, you\u2019re into saying, well, I could build something I am 95% sure will work in terms of handling and geometry and all of that kind of stuff, but anyone under six foot tall will get toe overlap. So I can\u2019t sell that bike to people.<\/p>\n<p>So you\u2019re looking at suddenly been building large and XLs in one particular model, unless you, unless I, unless I\u2019ve managed to work out how to make drop bars work successfully with a 66 degree head angle, and you know, and a bunch more, you know, and a bunch more, and who knows, maybe it\u2019s just part of the evolution of the sport, and maybe it will work just like in the same way that we were skeptical about, you know, 500 mil reaches and 63 degree head angles 10 years ago, and you know what they ride like a bike.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-e05848ab9b09739378cccfcfbd6b93a8 singl-content\" id=\"singl-e05848ab9b09739378cccfcfbd6b93a8\"><\/div>\n<p>Jeff Barber 36:47<br \/>Well, speaking of geometry, and you know, 32 inch wheels notwithstanding, do you think that mountain bike geometry is is pretty well optimized at this point? I mean, it seems like it\u2019s evolved a lot, but are you seeing it slow down? Like, it sounds like with your Jeht, you\u2019re at a place where you\u2019re like, this is this is great. Like, can you improve it more, though? <\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 37:10<br \/>I mean, the Jeht layout is an evolution of the geometry that we were using up until this year on the other trail bikes, they have slightly longer rear ends, they have slight, they\u2019re now slightly shorter at the front, you know, slightly not shorter reach, but slightly steeper head angle, slightly taller front center, lower BB, but we\u2019re talking like, you know, half to one degrees, we\u2019re talking millimeters, you know, a few millimeters here and there, and the it\u2019s with the Jeht, it has added up to more than the sum of its parts, but I think, yeah, I think realistically the big jump came, you know, four or five years ago for a lot of the industry, and a bit long, a bit more before for people like us, who were on it quite early, I mean, that I think one of the, one of the things can, one of the reasons why 32 people are grasping 32 and one of the things that is a background effect on the mountain bike industry that that\u2019s been kind of overshadowed by all the overstock and all of the other difficulties that we\u2019ve had to deal with, is that if you\u2019ve got a relatively durable frame, which had good geometry from five years ago, you\u2019re not getting like a massive step in performance if you\u2019re looking to buy the same genre of bike, regardless of which brand, whether you stay on the same brand or, you know, you\u2019re not getting like you\u2019re maybe getting 5%.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-74238375aa4bfa5e10f6f26573a4a057 singl-content\" id=\"singl-74238375aa4bfa5e10f6f26573a4a057\"><\/div>\n<p>You\u2019re getting better fit, maybe proportional sizing, maybe some like, you know, better water bottle little features, but it\u2019s not like you know they\u2019re little things, and that, that, that is one, that\u2019s another thing causing a downward pressure on mountain bike sales.<\/p>\n<p>Whereas we, you know, because we were quite early on Long Shot, what we call Long Shot geometry, back in sort of 2017 2018 back in 2016 those trail bikes were the best trail bikes we knew how to make, absolutely, genuinely the best trail bikes we knew how to make.<\/p>\n<p>If you came and rode a 2019 Cotic, having bought a 2016 one, it was like a flipping spaceship compared to the 2016 bike. I mean, it was a quantum leap of performance, and you know, rider confidence and safety, and all of those things, but that that big steps been made, I just don\u2019t think there\u2019s probably, I don\u2019t think there\u2019s another one coming, I think I think it\u2019s just maturing as a product. That is a thing that we\u2019re all dealing with in the industry as well.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-1ed3705ff24ca128cdb6f966c0bdb15a singl-content\" id=\"singl-1ed3705ff24ca128cdb6f966c0bdb15a\"><\/div>\n<p>Jeff Barber 40:03<br \/>Yeah, yeah, interesting. Well, you, you talked a bit about the Cotic Rocket, which is your steel e-bike, and there aren\u2019t a lot of those, especially high-end electric bikes that have a steel frame.<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 40:19<br \/>No.<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 40:22<br \/>What made you want to design an e-bike, and what\u2019s been the reception to it? It seems like the people who like e bikes, or excuse me, the people who like steel bikes, you know, they they\u2019re in for that like simplicity, that like handmade kind of feel, whereas an e bike is like the opposite of that, right? it\u2019s electric, it\u2019s high tech, and so, yeah, talk about like, what? How do you, how do you combine those two things?<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 40:48<br \/>This is the well, that there\u2019s a lot to unpack here. So we started on the e-bike project back in 2019 and the first prototypes were basically looked like our drop link bikes, but with an aluminum front end and a massive down tube. Like they were basically a vendor\u2019s tube set with our geometry and our rear suspension. And they were fine, but they were really heavy, and they were, and they had all of the downsides of having a battery on the inside, and that they were really stiff, which even on an e bike is one of the things that is surprisingly noticeable is how dead most e-bikes ride, it\u2019s not just the weight, it is the enormous stiffness of the down tubes?<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-457669ee1a6b6801940565742e576faa singl-content\" id=\"singl-457669ee1a6b6801940565742e576faa\"><\/div>\n<p>Jeff Barber 41:42<br \/>Well, I understand too that part of that is like safety, you know. Correct me if I\u2019m wrong, but like, if it, if your tubes flex too much, it can damage the battery.<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 41:53<br \/>There\u2019s an element of that, but also the other thing is, is that if the, if your, if your down tube is not a tube, which a lot of them aren\u2019t. They are a gutter section with a hatch on them to let the battery out.<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 42:07<br \/>Gutter section!<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 42:11<br \/>That\u2019s not very efficient structurally, so they have to be really thick and really, and therefore really stiff and really heavy in order to actually carry the loads, so, so, yeah, so they were fine. We learned a lot. They were the ones that we played around with the different wheels, mixed wheel sizes, and we learned a lot about geometry, and this. Now we\u2019re into code, and the reason why we looked at it was because we saw electrification coming, and we thought we probably need to be on this, because that\u2019s always been something about Cotic, is that even though we use what most people consider to be a traditional material, it\u2019s always been a forward-looking brand, you know, the sole was a modern steel hardtail, and we made full suspension steel, full suspension bikes, because A, we wanted full suspension bikes, but B, we saw that as people understood suspension better and designing them better, and they weren\u2019t dissolving in the winters, like I said, that was becoming the bike of choice, so we needed to do that, you know, so again, so it was always about this, but doing an e-bike initially seemed like the least cottic thing we\u2019ve ever done, which was also like made us nervous.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-2fcc17716c0a937847f6d59a69930467 singl-content\" id=\"singl-2fcc17716c0a937847f6d59a69930467\"><\/div>\n<p>Then we went through Covid, and we couldn\u2019t get \u2013 you couldn\u2019t even get production products out of Taiwan, let alone prototypes, so, so I did a from all of my learning on the aluminum bikes, I did an I did a steel mule made in the UK with our vendor, who makes our UK made frames with within with a Shimano external battery slung under the bottom of the down tube, which is absolutely not allowed for a production bike, but it was just how it made it work.<\/p>\n<p>And it was really interesting because it wasn\u2019t right by any stretch of the imagination, but it was a lot more right than the aluminum bikes, and actually every time I showed photos of it, people didn\u2019t hate it. Okay, there\u2019s something going on here, but you know, we kept going down the idea of, and then lightweight e-bikes became a thing, smaller bat, you know, sort of three or four years ago, smaller batteries, lighter weight, and we were like, well, actually, the weight is one of the big things about this that we don\u2019t like.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-da7cbc9d18ddc23486e2e19c54dcaeaf singl-content\" id=\"singl-da7cbc9d18ddc23486e2e19c54dcaeaf\"><\/div>\n<p>So we got through, we got, we got through some aluminum information about a down tube that would fit a 400 watt hour battery to feed a Shimano drive system. Okay, so it was all third party battery, third party down tube. Lived into the Shimano system, so we were taking a lot of technical risk as a small brand, like coordinating vendors, dealing with warranty.<\/p>\n<p>You know, this was like a big swing, but I got all this information, and I dropped this so-called lightweight aluminum down tube for this lightweight battery. I\u2019m doing quote marks here, and dropped into the CAD, and just did the property straight away, and it was, it was like eight or 5900 grams, something like that, it was like, it was like it was not light, because functionally, even a small battery is quite big.<\/p>\n<p>So I double-checked again, because I\u2019ve seen they go, well, this thing\u2019s like a third heavier than the down tube I\u2019ve just built Neko\u2019s downhill bike out of. So this is a back ref to the Frameworks I did some steel frames for Neko Mulally\u2019s Frameworks racing projects. Right, yeah, he\u2019s a friend of mine. Yes, so I\u2019m sitting here going, well, I\u2019ve just watched a down tube that\u2019s raced a World Cup course, like that\u2019s like a third, that\u2019s you know, that\u2019s two thirds the weight of this, and obviously I knew all the Shimano back external battery, you know, sort of equipment, and then I looked back at the Shimano catalog, and they did this 500 watt hour battery, which is the one that\u2019s the most popular one with the bike, which, even though it was like, you know, the casings, like an eight year old design, and the battery text, like, you know, been around for like three years, just been lurking in their catalog the whole way through their process. Yeah, it\u2019s completely compatible with all of their modern systems, it\u2019s all the modern voltages and battery management and all of that, and it\u2019s only two and a half kilos.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-15c196dabbdf11c15ebaf462b5f2e3bc singl-content\" id=\"singl-15c196dabbdf11c15ebaf462b5f2e3bc\"><\/div>\n<p>So that\u2019s barely any heavier than the, the 400 watt hour, you know, again, air quotes, super light battery that I\u2019d have to buy a container load of, yeah, and suddenly I\u2019m going, well, I can buy everything from Shimano, so that\u2019s the EMC, the warranty, I don\u2019t have to buy pallets full of it, because we\u2019ve got a great relationship with Shimano, I can make the thing in the UK, we can make it out of steel.<\/p>\n<p>I just started throwing together, so doing the rocker link suspension became the thing, because I had to put the battery inside the front triangle.<\/p>\n<p>So I just did a real, like, I spent about two or three days just on a really rough concept based on my experience of doing all of these other little threads of things, and the weight was coming out, like the bike weight was coming out at, like, you know, sort of best guess 21 kilos, and I was going, hang on a minute, I can make a, I can make a bike that I don\u2019t have to commit container loads to that. I can definitely make in the UK, because you know we\u2019re still having supplier problems in Taiwan. This is like a couple of years ago. Yeah, I can buy handfuls of things from Shimano. It\u2019s a full power bike, and it\u2019s like a kilo heavier than my mate\u2019s Kniev OSL. You know, seriously, we had to have like a four hour meeting at work, where I was just going, just everyone check the math, everyone check this, because this just, why is no one done, why has no one figured this out?<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-37bc5ccd9e1324cc940301a565ff5900 singl-content\" id=\"singl-37bc5ccd9e1324cc940301a565ff5900\"><\/div>\n<p>So yeah, that was so it was, it was one of those things, it was a little bit circumstance, a little bit, a little bit circumstance, a little bit thinking outside the box, a little bit of experience from the prototyping, a little bit needs must in terms of sourcing in the UK in small numbers rather than committing to big numbers from overseas, and then suddenly we\u2019re into a thing where not only is the e-bike project doable, it\u2019s the most cottick thing imaginable, and, and it\u2019s, you know, so brand aligned. And it\u2019s actually becoming relatively low financial risk as well, because of the way we can make it. So it was just all of these dominoes sort of fell in that direction.<\/p>\n<p>In terms of how it\u2019s been received, I mean, we\u2019ve not sold loads of them, I\u2019ll be honest with you, I suspect that\u2019s more to do with the price, because it\u2019s a UK-made frame, as, as much as anything, because it is at the higher end of the price spectrum, I mean, it\u2019s competitive with your Santa Cruz is in your, you know, in your Orbeez and your Yetis and things like that, but it\u2019s, you know, but it is, it is a slightly different thing, but I think ultimately the e-bike market we found is a. Um, which I think a lot of brands are finding, actually, the e-bike market is one of the parts of the market where the motor is the overriding concern of the person buying the bike. So it\u2019s one of the bits of the market where you, as a brand, can do almost nothing to persuade your, your potential customer to buy yours.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-473e99fd50d3c0b0cec80b8768021ae9 singl-content\" id=\"singl-473e99fd50d3c0b0cec80b8768021ae9\"><\/div>\n<p>And what we\u2019re tending to find, and this was my experience borne out with friends of mine who I know who buy e-bikes as well, is people have a budget and they have a motor system that they want to buy and they have an amount of travel that they want the bike to have, and what\u2019s written on the down tube is fourth or fifth on the list.<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 50:48<br \/>Yeah, interesting. Yeah, for sure. People are really focused on those specs of the motor, right? How much power, how much torque.<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 50:58<br \/>And potentially the warranty backup of the motor, or you know, the reputation of the motor, but, but, yeah, it seems to be I have $6,000 to spend on a Bosch powered e-bike with 150 millimeters of travel. And what\u2019s written on the downtube, they do not care what\u2019s written on the downtube, as long as there\u2019s a warranty attached.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-7be8d220237a9c6bb415dc92ca2ff845 singl-content\" id=\"singl-7be8d220237a9c6bb415dc92ca2ff845\"><\/div>\n<p>And that\u2019s that, yes, with we\u2019re fighting a little bit the Shimano drive system, because it\u2019s not the most fashionable drive system, even though, given the power wards in ebike, I find it bizarre that my, my Shimano system with 85 Newtons and 600 watts of power that I barely ever use in boost because it\u2019s borderline unusable. It just seems bizarre to me.<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 51:47<br \/>Yeah, but you would surely sell a ton more if you had the new Avinox.<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 51:52<br \/>Oh yeah, yeah, we absolutely would. We\u2019d sell, we\u2019d sell, we would. Well, you say we\u2019d sell a ton more, but would we? Because Amflow bikes are always going to be way cheaper than anything I can build. And particularly with this new motor, because they held over the embargo for the motor, what was it? 27 Avinox bikes launched on that day.<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 52:24<br \/>Yeah, everybody has to wait on it. <\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-417507f04d0a6c81153eeae6e958b4a7 singl-content\" id=\"singl-417507f04d0a6c81153eeae6e958b4a7\"><\/div>\n<p>Cy Turner 52:26<br \/>And there\u2019s another like 30 coming. So, would I have sold? Would I really?<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 52:33<br \/>You\u2019d be one of many companies selling that same motor.<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 52:38<br \/>Yeah, exactly. So, maybe I\u2019d have sold some more, but would I have sold, like, you know, 500 instead of, you know, the probably, you know, 50 we\u2019re going to sell this year.<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 52:49<br \/>Yeah, probably not.<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 52:51<br \/>I don\u2019t think so. I think the Avinox thing is a really potentially dangerous thing for the I don\u2019t envy big bike brands selling e-bikes right now, put it that way.<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 53:03<br \/>Yeah, yeah. Well, and I think the Shimano system, again, I think it\u2019s fitting with your bike and with your brand, and with steel in particular, because Shimano is just, it\u2019s known for being that like reliable, and it\u2019s proven, and it\u2019s, you know, it\u2019s old school, I guess, a little compared to, you know, Avinox, and some of these newer players. It kind of, it kind of fits, if you ask me.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-57daa80108e6cb2a9af632d6a3c820c3 singl-content\" id=\"singl-57daa80108e6cb2a9af632d6a3c820c3\"><\/div>\n<p>Cy Turner 53:28<br \/>It does, it does, because there\u2019s things like the practicality of the out that of the external battery, just being able to charge your battery off your bike, being able to swap it halfway through the day in like three seconds flat,<\/p>\n<p>You know, when I did a press ride with Pinkbike, he steps the same height as me, so he borrowed my prototype, and he lent me a bike with a built-in battery, and we\u2019d hose the batteries by lunchtime, and I managed to find a dealer who would plug it in for me as a favor, and I eat like 20% of battery into the Cannondale. I swapped, we went back to the van, I swapped a battery for Seb in 10 seconds flat, and he was, he rode until it got dark, and I went to the cafe.<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 54:15<br \/>Right, it\u2019s it\u2019s practical, it\u2019s reliable, yes, all those things.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-6387c4f4044d9f910ebba3285d9db2df singl-content\" id=\"singl-6387c4f4044d9f910ebba3285d9db2df\"><\/div>\n<p>Cy Turner 54:21<br \/>Shimano are their own worst enemy in terms of marketing, because, like, you know, Amflow and SRAM, and a lot of these other brands have made all this noise recently about, like, their integrations and the free shifting and the auto shift that\u2019s been a part of the Shimano drive system with Shimano gears plugged in, yeah, for five years. But nobody knows that.<\/p>\n<p>You know, I have a DI2 kit plugged into my motor, and I can shift, I can set it to auto shift if I want, but I don\u2019t often, I can shed it, I can. Said it to shift while I\u2019m freewheeling, where the motor powers the, the, you know, the cog, yeah, it\u2019s been doing, they\u2019ve been doing it for years, and nobody knows.<\/p>\n<p>So you\u2019re a little bit like, you know, sort of, it\u2019s a little bit frustrating, but you know, but then it, but it, like you say, it\u2019s good kit, and I really like it, and the people who are buying it and liking it, and like you say, the warranty backup, you know, it\u2019s a complete Shimano system, so there\u2019s no he said she said about the battery plug or anything like that. If it\u2019s got a third-party battery, it\u2019s just all Shimano things, you can take it to a Shimano dealer and get it plugged in and probably get it fixed. It\u2019s just like it\u2019s just that, and that for a small distance selling brand is super important.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-316604245e5372a5ba50404521158aec singl-content\" id=\"singl-316604245e5372a5ba50404521158aec\"><\/div>\n<p>Jeff Barber 55:49<br \/>Yeah, yeah. Well, you mentioned the bike that you worked on for Neko Mulally, the World Cup downhill bike, and you know we started the conversation talking about your, your first production bike, how it, you know, was kind of inspired from downhill, and it was a hard tail. Yeah, curious, like, what are your thoughts about the fella who recently attempted to qualify for the World Cup downhill on a hardtail? Are hardtails fast? Like, is this impossible? Is this something where it\u2019s like, oh, nobody should race a hardtail?<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 56:25<br \/>That was dangerous, and he should never have been let near the hill.<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 56:27<br \/>Yeah, okay.<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 56:28<br \/>No, absolutely not. That was like, I mean, Neko even said on down on the downtime post-race suit show, you know, Asa, and nearly hit him, yeah, on his quality run, and then went over to him and said, like, afterwards, and went over to him when he got down and went, \u201cOh, hey, man, thanks for getting out the way. And Neko was just like, \u201cHow are you so chill? I would have typed to the guy.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-5caf972fa2249abaf551ab19854a2041 singl-content\" id=\"singl-5caf972fa2249abaf551ab19854a2041\"><\/div>\n<p>Jeff Barber<br \/>What if you could separate, you know, the people on hardtails and the people on full suspension? Is this like, is would this be a thing? Do you think it would be fun? Would it be entertaining?<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 57:10<br \/>There are hardtail categories in UK grassroots downhill racing.<\/p>\n<p>One of our, one of our very, very good multiple Cotic owner, a guy I know called Stu, who\u2019s he\u2019s raced his BFeMAX regularly in enduros and on many downhills. So yeah, there are subcategories for it, and there\u2019s often a hardtail category in the enduros in the UK.<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 57:34<br \/>Oh, cool. I don\u2019t know if we have that in the US, maybe some races, but yeah, I mean, are the time gaps, I\u2019m assuming they\u2019re, they\u2019re pretty significant between the hardtails and the full suspension bikes?<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 57:45<br \/>They on downhills they probably are, but on enduros, you know, certainly in UK enduros, you know, which, you know, we\u2019ve got smaller hills, shorter stages, and more peddly sections, that those, the fast hardtail guys are not the slowest people on the hill at all.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-fe0c355cb59eaf4b2e83ee88efcabdc1 singl-content\" id=\"singl-fe0c355cb59eaf4b2e83ee88efcabdc1\"><\/div>\n<p>So, yeah, it\u2019s yeah, I think the way they do it in, in a lot of the endurocast, you enter your age group, but then there\u2019s like, there\u2019s like a subcate, you can take the hardtail subcategory, and that just, that\u2019s not age groups at all. It\u2019s just like, if you want to get counted in that,<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 58:27<br \/>Right, it\u2019s like single speed in a cross-country race.<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 58:30<br \/>So yeah, it is a thing over here, but, yeah, not, it has no\u2026<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 58:39<br \/>You shouldn\u2019t mix the two.<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 58:40<br \/>It makes no sense, no, not at that level, no, absolutely not.<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 58:45<br \/>Right. So, tell us, what\u2019s what\u2019s next for Cotic? What are you working on? What do you, what are you getting excited about this year?<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 58:54<br \/>Having a bit of a rest, like we\u2019ve just launched, like, yeah, the Jeht and the Escapade, like two big launches that we\u2019ve just done, so yeah, so it\u2019s so yeah, we\u2019ve got a lot of work to do to get those out there on demo, get them out there to media, you know, get get the word out about the, you know, those new new bikes, so that\u2019s the, that\u2019s the work for the next few months, and just trying to, like, we\u2019re, you know, there\u2019s still a little bit of, you know, we\u2019re still dealing with a little bit of the hangover of COVID in terms of our supply chain stability.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-9772180a948178df8c952be386649bac singl-content\" id=\"singl-9772180a948178df8c952be386649bac\"><\/div>\n<p>You know, some of the availability of some of our products hasn\u2019t been as good as it should be for the last couple of years, so we\u2019re just in the process of getting to the bottom of that, so what I\u2019m really hoping is for like a nice stable boring end to the year, that would be nice, I would like, but you know, I. That would be that would be really good, but yeah, like I say, we\u2019re gonna keep a little bit of an eye on 32 but we\u2019re not, we, you know, we\u2019re not like super like charging towards that, and yeah, so it\u2019s so really we\u2019re just, yeah, like, say, these, these were the, these two bikes were the culmination of a lot of work over a lot of months, and we\u2019re only a little brand, so there\u2019s still a lot of work.<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 1:00:30<br \/>I\u2019m sure. Like you said, the marketing and the getting them out the door, and all of that, building up.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-6842b46680523e322c0b36df922a828d singl-content\" id=\"singl-6842b46680523e322c0b36df922a828d\"><\/div>\n<p>Cy Turner 1:00:36<br \/>Yeah, because we\u2019re still ramping up product, because they both UK made that we\u2019re still ramping up production on them, so that it\u2019s going to be, you know, so whilst we\u2019re taking orders, and you know, we\u2019re very grateful for the people who are being patient with that at the moment, you know, we\u2019re still, we\u2019re still sort of six or eight weeks away from having a few of them on the shelf to be able to say, you know, yes, you can have it next week, kind of thing. <\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber<br \/>Okay, gotcha. Cool. Well, so what\u2019s the best way for our listeners to keep up with the latest from Cotic? <\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner<br \/>If you, if you really want to keep up with the latest from Cotic, then head to the contact page on the Cotic website, so Cotic.co.uk\/contact and sign up to our newsletter. It\u2019s always from me, it\u2019s not, you know, it\u2019s not an AI bot spamathon, it\u2019s always from me, and it\u2019s always about events or things I\u2019m thinking about, or, you know, rides we\u2019re doing, like I say, I literally sent, sent one out this morning, because we\u2019re doing a gravel ride in London in July, so, so, yeah, so that\u2019s that, that\u2019s proper Kochic stuff. Otherwise, Instagram at Cotic Bikes, Facebook Cotic, TikTok at Cotic Bikes. So, yeah, all the YouTube, yeah, all the social medias, although it\u2019s generally the same content across all the platforms, you\u2019re not missing out if you don\u2019t miss, or if you don\u2019t miss one of them.<\/p>\n<div style=\"min-height: 250px;padding: auto;margin-bottom: 20px\" class=\"singl-909a2052f6d5d1324ec0740b708cded2 singl-content\" id=\"singl-909a2052f6d5d1324ec0740b708cded2\"><\/div>\n<p>Jeff Barber 1:02:02<br \/>Well, Cy, thanks so much for taking the time to chat with us. I learned a ton about steel and titanium and all of that stuff, and yeah, this is a lot of fun to chat.<\/p>\n<p>Cy Turner 1:02:13<br \/>I really appreciate the opportunity. Thank you, Jeff.<\/p>\n<p>Jeff Barber 1:02:16<br \/>Well, you can keep up with the latest from the Singletracks podcast at singletracks.com\/podcast So we\u2019ve got this week. We\u2019ll talk to you again next week.<\/p>\n<p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t&lt;!&#8211;<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h4>Related articles<\/h4>\n<p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t&#8211;&gt;<\/p>\n<div style=\"height: 30px\">\u00a0<\/div>\n<p>\t\t\t\tjQuery(function() {<br \/>\n\t\t\t\t\tpostpayloads._871c3d737b105e61162ae3a5f2ba359f = {&#8220;ids&#8221;:&#8221;717540,600090,705246,577970&#8243;,&#8221;posts_per_page&#8221;:null,&#8221;offset&#8221;:0,&#8221;style&#8221;:&#8221;4up&#8221;};<br \/>\n\t\t\t\t\tpostcounter._871c3d737b105e61162ae3a5f2ba359f = {start: 0, step: 0, end: 0};<br \/>\n\t\t\t\t});<\/p>\n<div class=\"row\" style=\"background: #fff\">\n<div class=\"col-xs-6 col-md-3 st_archive_4up\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/www.singletracks.com\/mtb-gear\/steel-cotic-jeht-3-mountain-bike-combines-trail-and-enduro-in-one-mixed-wheel-package\/\"><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"lazy\" src=\"\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg&apos;%20viewBox=&apos;0%200%201%201&apos;%3E%3C\/svg%3E\" data-src=\"https:\/\/images.singletracks.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/04\/jeht_55225530424_o-750x500.jpg\" alt=\"A sleek mountain bike with a aluminum frame featuring a silver finish, equipped with large, rugged tires. The bike has a front suspension fork with golden stanchions, a prominent purple accent on the frame, and a modern drivetrain. The setup emphasizes both performance and aesthetics, with its components arranged in an ideal riding position against a dark background.\"><\/a><\/p>\n<div class=\"st_archive_tag\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.singletracks.com\/gear\/mountain-bikes\/trail-bikes\/\">Trail Bikes<\/a><\/div>\n<div class=\"st_archive_title\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.singletracks.com\/mtb-gear\/steel-cotic-jeht-3-mountain-bike-combines-trail-and-enduro-in-one-mixed-wheel-package\/\">Steel Cotic Jeht 3 mountain bike combines trail and enduro in one mixed-wheel package<\/a><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<div class=\"col-xs-6 col-md-3 st_archive_4up\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/www.singletracks.com\/mtb-gear\/the-how-and-why-of-building-full-suspension-mountain-bikes-out-of-steel\/\"><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"lazy\" src=\"\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg&apos;%20viewBox=&apos;0%200%201%201&apos;%3E%3C\/svg%3E\" data-src=\"https:\/\/images.singletracks.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/09\/Starling-78-750x500.jpg\" alt=\"A person wearing a black t-shirt and helmet stands beside a mountain bike in a forested area. The bike has muddy tires, and the person is smiling, suggesting they have been riding. Surrounding them are green ferns and trees, creating a natural outdoor setting.\"><\/a><\/p>\n<div class=\"st_archive_tag\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.singletracks.com\/?gear=mountain-bikes\">Mountain bikes<\/a><\/div>\n<div class=\"st_archive_title\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.singletracks.com\/mtb-gear\/the-how-and-why-of-building-full-suspension-mountain-bikes-out-of-steel\/\">The How and Why of Building Full Suspension Mountain Bikes Out of Steel<\/a><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<div class=\"clearfix visible-xs\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"col-xs-6 col-md-3 st_archive_4up\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/www.singletracks.com\/mtb-gear\/2-innovative-designs-for-swapping-wheel-sizes\/\"><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"lazy\" src=\"\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg&apos;%20viewBox=&apos;0%200%201%201&apos;%3E%3C\/svg%3E\" data-src=\"https:\/\/images.singletracks.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/54872074024_96a49f9db5_k-750x500.jpg\" alt=\"Close-up view of a bicycle&apos;s rear drivetrain, featuring a white bicycle frame section, a black derailleur, and a metallic cassette, all set against a dark background.\"><\/a><\/p>\n<div class=\"st_archive_tag\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.singletracks.com\/gear\/\">Mountain Bikes and Gear<\/a><\/div>\n<div class=\"st_archive_title\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.singletracks.com\/mtb-gear\/2-innovative-designs-for-swapping-wheel-sizes\/\">2 innovative designs for swapping MTB wheel sizes<\/a><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<div class=\"col-xs-6 col-md-3 st_archive_4up\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/www.singletracks.com\/mtb-gear\/the-140mm-cotic-jeht-full-sus-real-steel-full-review\/\"><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"lazy\" src=\"\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg&apos;%20viewBox=&apos;0%200%201%201&apos;%3E%3C\/svg%3E\" data-src=\"https:\/\/images.singletracks.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/02\/DSC8549-750x500.jpg\" alt=\"A black and white photograph of a mountain bike resting on rocky terrain by a calm body of water. The bike features thick tires and a sleek frame, partially obscured by large stones in the foreground. The still water reflects the surrounding landscape, creating a serene atmosphere.\"><\/a><\/p>\n<div class=\"st_archive_tag\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.singletracks.com\/gear\/mountain-bikes\/trail-bikes\/\">Trail Bikes<\/a><\/div>\n<div class=\"st_archive_title\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.singletracks.com\/mtb-gear\/the-140mm-cotic-jeht-full-sus-real-steel-full-review\/\">The 140mm Cotic Jeht Full Suspension, Real Steel Full Review<\/a><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<div class=\"clearfix visible-xs\"><\/div>\n<\/div><\/div>\n<div class=\"clearfix\"><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Cy Turner is the founder and owner of UK-based Cotic Cycles. The Cotic brand got its start in 2003 and is known for high-quality, handcrafted steel bikes, ranging from hardtails to full-suspension bikes to gravel bikes.\u00a0 What were you looking for in a hardtail in 2001 that you couldn\u2019t find back then? Where does the [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[226,274],"class_list":["post-1968338","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized","tag-crawlmanager","tag-singletracks-com"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1968338","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=1968338"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1968338\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=1968338"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=1968338"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=1968338"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}