{"id":1892677,"date":"2026-04-20T18:10:59","date_gmt":"2026-04-20T15:10:59","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/?p=1892677"},"modified":"2026-04-20T18:10:59","modified_gmt":"2026-04-20T15:10:59","slug":"jenkem-mix-164-tim-kinsella","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/?p=1892677","title":{"rendered":"JENKEM MIX 164: TIM KINSELLA"},"content":{"rendered":"
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\nIn the same way that pants go from baggy to skinny, music trends move in a cyclical motion. And recently, second wave emo, aka \u201cMidwest Emo,\u201d seems to be making a comeback.<\/strong><\/p>\n

From cult bands going on reunion tours to young bands turning heads, the genre that can feel like a time capsule into the early 90s is reinventing itself once again. But where\u2019d it start?<\/p>\n

For that, many look towards Tim Kinsella<\/a>, co-founder of Cap\u2019n Jazz<\/a>, a band whose first and only album, Shmap\u2019n Shmazz<\/a><\/em>, is often credited as sparking the entire second wave sound.<\/p>\n

While six short paragraphs couldn\u2019t possibly do Tim Kinsella justice, Noisy did a good job telling his story in their sweeping 2017 documentary, Your War (I\u2019m One Of You): 20 Years Of Joan Of Arc<\/a><\/em>. <\/p>\n

For Jenkem Mix 164, Tim selected a mix of songs that made a deep impact on his career, as well as music from his latest project, Kinsella and Pulse, LLC<\/a>.<\/p>\n

Throw it on, and while you listen read through our short interview with Tim about sustaining creative projects, knowing when to quit, the Midwest Emo revival, and more. As always, download HERE or forever hold your peace.\n <\/p>\n

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You titled the mix sub sub culture 101, what does that mean to you? <\/strong>
\nWhen you\u2019re first introduced to subculture there are things you get into first, like the Violent Femmes or the Misfits, those bands that help you discover that there is other music than just popular music. And then if you stick with it and continue to listen you hear that there are other modes of rebellion. So I picked songs that made a big imprint on me, not necessarily as a teenager when I was first being introduced to subculture, but later on. This is the underground of the underground. <\/p>\n

Because it\u2019s so easy to hop into the depths of a subculture these days online, do you think it\u2019s easier or harder to find a subculture you relate to compared to when you were growing up? <\/strong>
\nWhen I was growing up, your musical tastes were really tribal. I remember seeing Jello Biafra<\/a> do a spoken word thing when I was 13, and he made a joke that no gym teacher could get someone to conform as well as heavy metal fans conform with their style, which was very true in the late 80s. So there was this tribal thing, and it especially meant a lot for punks. If you were traveling and you saw someone with a Misfits t-shirt or with an Exploited patch, you\u2019d be like, \u201cOh, this guy knows the same secret knowledge I do.\u201d <\/p>\n

You couldn\u2019t know what something like Os Mutantes<\/a> sounded like unless you had the record, or your friend had it. You couldn\u2019t Google it. So there\u2019s a different level of commitment. And there\u2019s something beautiful about the mystery of it, when you\u2019re a kid and you see a Dead Kennedy\u2019s logo, you\u2019d wonder, \u201cOh, what\u2019s that sound like.\u201d There\u2019s something really utopian and magical about how everyone has so much access now, but it\u2019s also a little dystopian how that constant access jams things up and solidifies the dominant powers of conformity. <\/p>\n

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As I get older I skateboard less, and I often wonder if I actively have to be skateboarding to appreciate skateboarding, so I wanted to pose that question to you. Do you have to be actively playing music to appreciate it? <\/strong>
\nI\u2019m 51, and maybe even when I was 35 what I\u2019m about to say would have sounded pretentious to me, but I absolutely believe I\u2019m first and foremost an obsessive music fan before I am a guy who makes music. But yeah, when you\u2019re young and you\u2019re starting something you not only have the energy but you\u2019re learning, so it takes much more time to make the mistakes. Later on you don\u2019t have to make those mistakes, so I don\u2019t sit around and practice my scales, they are in my hands, I don\u2019t need to put the hours into that anymore. You know how to execute your ideas better, so if I want to play a melody line I know how to achieve that. I don\u2019t have to struggle. But yeah, I play music most days, and sometimes I still wonder why I don\u2019t spend as much time playing music as I used to. <\/p>\n

Would you be surprised to know that some of your earlier projects, like Joan of Arc and Cap\u2019n Jazz, have been used a lot in skate videos? <\/strong>
\nThat\u2019s amazing. When Cap\u2019n Jazz was happening, all our friends were skateboarders. All we did was hang out in big groups and skate. So that sensibility gets transferred somehow, maybe in a way that none of us could recognize or verbalize at the time, but that creative energy was there. And by the time Joan of Arc started I was 21, so less active as a skateboarder, but it\u2019s still the same worldview. <\/p>\n

Are there any skate videos that influenced you early on growing up?<\/strong>
\nThe H-Street video, Hokus Pokus<\/em><\/a> comes to mind immediately. And we actually used to cover two songs in Cap\u2019n Jazz from skate videos, one was \u201cAlone\u201d by The Cry, and we didn\u2019t even know the band name or the name of the song but we all just watched the video so much. And then Cap\u2019n Jazz covered a song that we just referred to as H-Street because we didn\u2019t even know what the song was. <\/p>\n

Woah, I didn\u2019t know the Cry was in the H-Street video. I know that song \u201cAlone\u201d from a video<\/a> that came out in 2016. <\/strong>
\nSo that\u2019s someone pointing back to the H-Street video. I remember someone had \u201cHensley is my mentor.\u201d written big on their board growing up. And then you mentioned a first board, I think mine was a Steve Caballero, this giant boat. And I didn\u2019t have any money as a kid, so I\u2019d ride this board until they looked like a piece of wood from a dock that had been flooded [laughs].<\/p>\n

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There\u2019s this generation of punks that came out of the late 80s with this anti-establishment music, and I feel like it should be happening again right now, but it\u2019s not. Do you think there\u2019s a reason for that? <\/strong>
\nYou know, this is something I talk about with my friends a lot, like, \u201cWhere is the underground?\u201d and at least in Chicago, there\u2019s a lot of gnarly techno parties that feel to me how the punk shows felt as a kid. And you know, in the late 80s and early 90s the most portable musical device was a guitar. Now what\u2019s portable is a sampler, laptop, drum machine, so this same energy of counterculture and rebellion is always there, it just changes. Nothing against Warped Tour or whatever, but that\u2019s not the underground. That\u2019s a commodified version of rebellion, so people can feel like, \u201cOh, we\u2019re being rebellious.\u201d So I have 100% faith that these scenes still exist, and I probably know more about them than most people my age, but I\u2019m also not tapped into them the same way a 22 year old is. <\/p>\n

I really liked something you said about how creative people are scared to get an uncreative job. How did you come to this conclusion of, \u201cI just want a job that pays the bills and do my creative stuff on the side?\u201d<\/strong>
\nHonestly, I bartended for a really long time and it got too physically hard. My whole next day would be ruined. So I went back to school and got a degree so I could teach, and then I was a teacher for a decade. But I realized that I was using the energy I needed for my own creative work while teaching, and that I was able to concentrate less on my own creative endeavors because all that energy was going into teaching. So I was like, what I really need is to be a handyman or something, because with that you get the money and don\u2019t have to invest any creative energy into that. <\/p>\n

Did that work for you? <\/strong>
\nTotally, and it makes me focused when I do have the time to work on my own stuff. I\u2019m more appreciative of it, and I can\u2019t put it off, because I know I have to go and be like a landscaper that day. <\/p>\n

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We see a lot of these once popular skate brands become shells of themselves because they don\u2019t know when to quit, and as someone who\u2019s started and completed different projects, how do you know when a project has run its course? <\/strong>
\nI think when it becomes a caricature of itself, you know? Joan of Arc was a band for 22 years, but it changed a lot. And that\u2019s how we kept it fresh for us. But at the time, a lot of people were like, \u201cOh my gosh, Joan of Arc is still a band?\u201d<\/p>\n

You have to weigh the cost benefit ratio of, \u201cThis is who I am, this is what makes me happy.\u201d I need to make music to make me happy, but I don\u2019t necessarily have to share it all, like the music I release is probably 10% of the music I make. People get into bad situations when they need the appreciation of the audience too much. That need to be liked is pretty embarrassing. <\/p>\n

I heard you speak about this feeling of being at the peak of your ability musically, but the trough of your audience. And sometimes I see this with skaters who have this insane ability, but people don\u2019t necessarily care. Do you think fulfilling your creative needs to push yourself is more important than creating music that people like? <\/strong>
\nThat\u2019s a hard one. When I was 25 I had 1,000 friends and every single one was in a band, and then you get a job that doesn\u2019t leave you enough energy, or you have a kid. You know, I just finished a new solo record, and I sent it to 4 or 5 labels run by people I like and know, and I can\u2019t get anyone interested in doing the project. It\u2019s not easy when you\u2019re not willing to take short cuts. <\/p>\n

I don\u2019t know if you\u2019re attuned to this midwest emo sound revival, like Algernon Cadwallader releasing new music or American Football getting a Vans collab. Why do you think that\u2019s happening? <\/strong>
\nThe world is fucking scary and depressing, you know? Masked men kidnapping people off the street, environmental devastation, it\u2019s a scary time, so I can\u2019t blame anyone for being nostalgic for the 90s and the feeling of, \u201canything is possible.\u201d People are sick of current reality, so it\u2019s an easy time to get nostalgic. <\/p>\n

Do you find yourself nostalgic? Because from your creative output it doesn\u2019t seem as such?<\/strong>
\nWell, when I was younger I got really into a lot of pretty radical revolutionary politics, and that sort of informed my world views, and I think when I was younger I was a bit of a hard ass. I saw nostalgia as counter revolutionary, you know? But I\u2019m still subject to it. When I see a friendly dog I don\u2019t want to just wrestle that specific dog, I want to feel like I\u2019m wrestling all the dogs in my life that I\u2019ve enjoyed wrestling with. So I still get nostalgic, obviously, but that doesn\u2019t have much of a place in my creative processes. <\/p>\n

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Of the music you included in your mix, is there one that you\u2019re particularly excited for people to hear? <\/strong>
\nScott Walker and Arnold Dreyblatt made the first draft of the list, and I scratched them out but still wanted to include them so people still look them up. Those are both huge influences on me for many years. Young Marble Giants I\u2019ve returned to over many years, \u201c10 or 11 Towns Ago\u201d by Lee Hazlewood my wife Jenny has [the lyrics] printed out in her studio, and it\u2019s the smartest and funniest song lyrically.<\/p>\n


\nIntro and Interview by: Ben Komins<\/a>
\nHeader Photo by: Andy Mueller<\/a>
\nScroll to the bone Instagram<\/a> and Twitter<\/a>
\nPost your fav track on Facebook<\/a>
\nAh geez, follow us on TikTok<\/a> too<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n<\/p><\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

In the same way that pants go from baggy to skinny, music trends move in a cyclical motion. And recently, second wave emo, aka \u201cMidwest Emo,\u201d seems to be making a comeback. From cult bands going on reunion tours to young bands turning heads, the genre that can feel like a time capsule into the […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[226,282],"class_list":["post-1892677","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized","tag-crawlmanager","tag-jenkemmag-com"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1892677","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=1892677"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1892677\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=1892677"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=1892677"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=1892677"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}