{"id":1892630,"date":"2026-04-20T15:00:00","date_gmt":"2026-04-20T12:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/?p=1892630"},"modified":"2026-04-20T15:00:00","modified_gmt":"2026-04-20T12:00:00","slug":"canvas-ceo-on-its-big-pivot-to-ai-enterprise-software","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/?p=1892630","title":{"rendered":"Canva\u2019s CEO on its big pivot to AI enterprise software"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><main id=\"content\"><\/p>\n<div class>\n<article>\n<div class=\"duet--article--lede duet--page-layout--feature-article\">\n<div class=\"duet--ledes--feature-lede olmxu70\">\n<div class=\"olmxu71\">\n<div class=\"olmxu76 olmxu77\">\n<div class=\"bu4cqq5 bu4cqq4\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_1ymtmqp7\">\n<div class=\"olmxu72 _1ymtmqp3\">\n<div class=\"olmxu73\">\n<div class=\"_1p1nf4x0 _1p1nf4x2\">\n<div class=\"_1p1nf4x3\"><span class=\"_13g9mks17\"><\/p>\n<ul class=\"_1phh1th0\">\n<li>\n<div 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-->Design<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/aside>\n<\/div>\n<\/li>\n<li>\n<div id=\"follow-category-breadcrumb-dmcyOmNhdGVnb3J5OjU4\"><button aria-expanded=\"false\" aria-haspopup=\"true\"><span class=\"gnx4pm0 _4hoiss5 _1xwtict5 _1618ekm0\"><span class=\"_1ajq89ke _1ajq89k1 _1ajq89k0\"><\/span><span class=\"_1618ekm8\">Tech<\/span><\/span><\/button><\/p>\n<aside id=\"popover-dmcyOmNhdGVnb3J5OjU4-breadcrumb\" style=\"position:absolute;left:0;top:0\" class=\"_1wu3rm0 _6ytxv90\" aria-hidden=\"true\">\n<div class=\"_1wu3rm1\"><button class=\"_1wu3rm3\"><title>Close<\/title><\/button><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1wu3rm5\">Tech<\/div>\n<p class=\"fv263x1\">Posts from this topic will be added to your daily email digest and your homepage feed.<\/p>\n<p><button class=\"duet--cta--button _1f7jm891 _1f7jm890 fv263x2 _1f7jm89g\"><span><title>Follow<\/title><\/span><span>Follow<\/span><\/button><\/p>\n<p class=\"fv263x4\"><a class=\"fv263x5\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/tech\">See All <!-- -->Tech<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/aside>\n<\/div>\n<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><\/span><\/div>\n<div class>\n<h1 class=\"_8enl992 _8enl990 _8enl997 _1xwtictb _1xwtict9\">Canva\u2019s CEO on its big pivot to AI enterprise software<\/h1>\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup _8enl99i _8enl99g _1xwtictb _1xwtict1\">Why Melanie Perkins is confident Canva can take on the big AI players.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_1p1nf4xa\">\n<p class=\"_1643obv0 _1xwtictb\">If you buy something from a Verge link, Vox Media may earn a commission. <a class=\"_1643obv1\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/ethics-statement\">See our ethics statement.<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_13g9mks2 _13g9mks0 _13g9mks21\">\n<div class=\"_13g9mks9 _13g9mksh\">\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-byline _1xwtictb _114qu8c0\"><span class><span>by<\/span> <!-- --> <span aria-expanded=\"false\" role=\"button\"><span id=\"follow-author-author_byline_lead-dmcyOmF1dGhvclByb2ZpbGU6NjAx\" class=\"t0jcdf0 gnx4pm0 _114qu8c2 _114qu8c4 t0jcdf1\"><span class=\"t0jcdf2\"><span class=\"_1ajq89ke _1ajq89k1 _1ajq89k0\"><\/span><\/span><span>Nilay Patel<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<aside id=\"popover-dmcyOmF1dGhvclByb2ZpbGU6NjAx-author_byline_lead\" style=\"position:absolute;left:0;top:0\" class=\"_1wu3rm0 _6ytxv90\" aria-hidden=\"true\">\n<div class=\"_1wu3rm1\"><button class=\"_1wu3rm3\"><title>Close<\/title><\/button><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1bw37384\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Nilay Patel\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1bw37385 x271pn0\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/chorus\/author_profile_images\/195834\/NILAY_PATEL.0.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"_1wu3rm5 _1bw37380\">Nilay Patel<\/div>\n<div class=\"_1bw37381\">\n<div class=\"_1bw37382\">Editor-in-Chief<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p class=\"fv263x1\">Posts from this author will be added to your daily email digest and your homepage feed.<\/p>\n<p><button class=\"duet--cta--button _1f7jm891 _1f7jm890 fv263x2 _1f7jm89g\"><span><title>Follow<\/title><\/span><span>Follow<\/span><\/button><\/p>\n<p class=\"fv263x4\"><a class=\"fv263x5\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/authors\/nilay-patel\">See All by <!-- -->Nilay Patel<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/aside>\n<p><\/span><\/div>\n<p><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp tvl9dp5 tvl9dp1 tvl9dp0 _1xwtict5 _1xwtictb\"><time datetime=\"2026-04-20T15:00:00+00:00\">Apr 20, 2026, 3:00 PM UTC<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<div class=\"_13g9mksm\">\n<div class=\"_13g9mksx _13g9mks15\"><span class=\"_13g9mks16 _13g9mks17\"><\/p>\n<ul class=\"duet--article--share-buttons a8vjfv0\">\n<li>\n<div class=\"a8vjfvo\"><button aria-label=\"Copy link\" class=\"a8vjfv3 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statement.<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"bu4cqq0\">\n<div class=\"olmxu74\">\n<div class=\"_1ibjt4j0\">\n<div class=\"_1ibjt4j2 _1ibjt4j1 sticky-nav-trigger\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"_2ezt6b0\">\n<div class=\"_1ozko3v3\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--layout--entry-body-container _1t5ltw90 _1ymtmqp3 _1ymtmqp15\">\n<div class=\"_1t5ltw91\">\n<div class=\"duet--layout--entry-body _9f4de40\">\n<div class=\"duet--ledes--standard-lede-bottom\">\n<div class=\"_1o1f7ku5\">\n<div class=\"_1gmcxs22 _1gmcxs20\">\n<div class=\"_1n017go0 _1n017go1\">\n<div class=\"_1n017go3\"><a class=\"_1n017go6\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/authors\/nilay-patel\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Nilay Patel\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" width=\"36\" height=\"36\" data-nimg=\"1\" class=\"_1n017go4\" style=\"color:transparent\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/chorus\/author_profile_images\/195834\/NILAY_PATEL.0.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=96\"><\/a><\/div>\n<div class=\"_1n017go5\"><span aria-expanded=\"false\" role=\"button\"><span id=\"follow-author-standard_article_details-dmcyOmF1dGhvclByb2ZpbGU6NjAx\" class=\"t0jcdf0 gnx4pm0 _114qu8c2 _114qu8c3 t0jcdf1\"><span class=\"t0jcdf2\"><span class=\"_1ajq89k1 _1ajq89k0\"><\/span><\/span><span>Nilay Patel<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<aside id=\"popover-dmcyOmF1dGhvclByb2ZpbGU6NjAx-standard_article_details\" style=\"position:absolute;left:0;top:0\" class=\"_1wu3rm0 _6ytxv90\" aria-hidden=\"true\">\n<div class=\"_1wu3rm1\"><button class=\"_1wu3rm3\"><title>Close<\/title><\/button><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1bw37384\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Nilay Patel\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1bw37385 x271pn0\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/chorus\/author_profile_images\/195834\/NILAY_PATEL.0.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"_1wu3rm5 _1bw37380\">Nilay Patel<\/div>\n<div class=\"_1bw37381\"><\/div>\n<p class=\"fv263x1\">Posts from this author will be added to your daily email digest and your homepage feed.<\/p>\n<p><button class=\"duet--cta--button _1f7jm891 _1f7jm890 fv263x2 _1f7jm89g\"><span><title>Follow<\/title><\/span><span>Follow<\/span><\/button><\/p>\n<p class=\"fv263x4\"><a class=\"fv263x5\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/authors\/nilay-patel\">See All by <!-- -->Nilay Patel<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/aside>\n<p> <span class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup _1n017go7\">is editor-in-chief of The Verge, host of the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/decoder-podcast-with-nilay-patel\"><b>Decoder podcast<\/b><\/a>, and co-host of <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/the-vergecast\"><b>The Vergecast<\/b><\/a>.<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div id=\"zephr-anchor\" class=\"_1ymtmqp11\">\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _17nnmdy6 _17nnmdy5 _1xwtict1\">Today, I\u2019m talking with Melanie Perkins, founder and CEO of Canva, a popular online design tool.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">I always enjoy talking with Melanie. She was <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/24191080\/canva-ceo-melanie-perkins-design-ai-adobe-competition-decoder-podcast-interview\">last on the show<\/a> a couple of years ago, just as the AI revolution was coming to the worlds of art and design. At the time, Canva had escaped a lot of the criticism being leveled at its competitors for adding AI tools. Melanie attributed that both to how much Canva users love the product and also the huge inroads it was making into the business world. Canva is a tool that empowers non-designers to design, and that group of people was just trying to get work done. They didn\u2019t seem nearly as threatened by AI as professionals using other creative software \u2014 they may have even felt empowered.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">It\u2019s been two years, and it\u2019s safe to say that AI is <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/tech\/912287\/adobe-firefly-ai-assistant-announcement-editing\">all over design software<\/a> now \u2014 and a lot more people have a lot more feelings about AI in general. But Melanie and Canva are pushing even more aggressively into integrating AI. The company <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/tech\/913068\/canva-ai-2-update-prompt-based-editing-availability\">just announced a big new update<\/a> that allows people to simply tell Canva what to make and have it go through various data sources like Slack and email to build presentations, documents, and other design materials. Those projects arrive as regular old Canva files, which you can edit at will. You\u2019ll hear Melanie come back to that idea several times \u2014 having the output of the AI system be in a format you can edit, so that you can refine it, is a big deal.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--block-placement _1o279nj2 _1o279nj0 duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<div class=\"duet--article--highlight _1ymtmqpl kuxlcj0\">\n<div class=\"kuxlcj1\"><\/div>\n<div>\n<div style=\"position:relative\">\n<div class>\n<div class>\n<div style=\"background-image:none\" class=\"duet--media--content-warning ucljxw0\">\n<div class=\"duet--article--image-gallery-image kqz8fh0\" style=\"aspect-ratio:1\" id=\"dmcyOmltYWdlOjU5NQ==\"><a class=\"kqz8fh1\" href=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/chorus\/uploads\/chorus_asset\/file\/24792604\/The_Verge_Decoder_Tileart.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0,0,100,100\" data-pswp-height=\"3000\" data-pswp-width=\"3000\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"x271pn0\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/chorus\/uploads\/chorus_asset\/file\/24792604\/The_Verge_Decoder_Tileart.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"kuxlcj4\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1 kuxlcj7\"><em>Verge<\/em> subscribers, don\u2019t forget you get exclusive access to ad-free <em>Decoder<\/em> wherever you get your podcasts. Head <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/account\/podcasts\">here<\/a>. Not a subscriber? You can <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/subscribe\">sign up here<\/a>.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">The idea here, as Canva says, is to move \u201cfrom a design platform with AI tools to an AI platform with design tools.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">I\u2019ll let you all sit with that for a moment.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">Obviously I dug into that with Melanie, as well as how she\u2019s thinking about Canva\u2019s relationship to the AI model providers, the cost of the tokens required to automate an app like Canva in this way, and the kinds of pricing that might lead to for users. These new AI tools are still in beta, so there\u2019s a lot to be worked out, but you\u2019ll hear Melanie say she\u2019s confident that Canva\u2019s growth in enterprise will continue to accelerate as more and more companies look for tools that automate tasks like making presentations.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">But that\u2019s the same idea as a lot of other big AI players aiming for corporate dollars, and so Melanie and I talked a lot about whether Canva is the right platform to bring everything all together. Unsurprisingly, she thinks it is \u2014 not least because she runs Canva using Canva.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">Of course, I also asked Melanie for an updated vibe check on AI and design. <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/ai-artificial-intelligence\/891724\/nbc-news-march-2026-poll-ai-ice\">Poll<\/a> after <a href=\"https:\/\/www.pewresearch.org\/short-reads\/2025\/11\/06\/republicans-democrats-now-equally-concerned-about-ai-in-daily-life-but-views-on-regulation-differ\/\">poll<\/a> shows that people really do not like AI right now, and the fears around job displacement and being overrun by slop all come to a head in a piece of creative software that doesn\u2019t require creatives anymore. Melanie had some thoughts here as well \u2014 and I did my best to get her to talk about Adobe, which is also adding AI tools and raising prices, a deadly combination for the biggest player in the space. You tell me if I got her to bite.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">There\u2019s a lot in this one \u2014 like I said, I always enjoy talking to Melanie.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">Okay: Canva CEO Melanie Perkins. Here we go.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--block-placement _1o279nj1 _1o279nj0 duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<div class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup _1h0hdr20\">\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><em>This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity.<\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>Melanie Perkins, you are the founder and CEO of Canva! Welcome back to <em>Decoder<\/em>.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">Thank you so much for having me. It\u2019s great to be here.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>I am very excited to talk to you again. It\u2019s been a couple years. You were last on the show in 2024. We talked about AI and design and the feelings people have about AI and design. And I was looking at that interview again just to prepare for this one. And a lot of the themes are all the same. And then the facts surrounding those themes have changed so dramatically in the past two years. And on top of it, you have big news that I really want to dig into.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>So let\u2019s just start at the start. The last time you were on the show, I said, \u201cWhat is Canva?\u201d And you said, \u201cCanva is an online design platform.\u201d And your news this week is, I believe, that the company is changing its own conception of itself. Tell us about that change and what led into it.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">There are some things that are changing and there are many things that remain the same. So our mission is still to empower the world to design, and we\u2019re going to be doing that very much over the years to come. But something that we\u2019ve always believed is that we should take the latest and greatest technology. We should build the latest and greatest technology and put that into our community\u2019s hands and enable them to achieve their goals. And what is the latest and greatest technology has certainly changed over the last few years. And so obviously AI is at the center of that change. And so we\u2019re really excited to be bringing the best of technology and putting that into our customers\u2019 hands as we\u2019ve done for the last decade. But obviously the latest and greatest technology today is AI. And so we\u2019re really excited to be doubling down into that space.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>All right. But I\u2019m looking at a press release that says, \u201cWe\u2019re moving from a design platform with AI tools to an AI platform with design tools.\u201d That seems like more than bringing the latest and greatest technology. It seems like a rethinking of what Canva\u2019s product is. Unpack that a little bit for me.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">Let\u2019s get into it. So when we launched Canva for the very first time, one of the huge innovations that we had was moving from pixels where everything was very granular and required deep expertise to be able to move anything around to be able to design anything to objects, where you could lay out a design. You could just have ideas for different objects. You could search our stock photography library, our illustration library, you could drag it onto the page, you start with a template or start from scratch, you could collaborate and design. And now what we\u2019re really excited about is with AI, we\u2019re moving into the concept layer. So you can just take an idea, you can write it in, and then something can get created for you. But very importantly, you can still move into the Canva\u2019s object editor and lay things out, collaborate, edit away.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">And so we\u2019re really excited about bringing it to this third tier of concept editing, which we think will be extraordinarily exciting. So it\u2019s our biggest launch ever and becoming the system where work happens end to end. But still very importantly with design at its core, being able to take it &#8230; I was going deep the other day into the definition of design and to design is to mock an idea. And really to mock an idea is at the essence of design. So we\u2019re really excited about bringing new tools and capabilities to be able to do exactly that.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>I have to ask you: I\u2019m looking at the presentation about all of this. And it was obviously made in Canva. I know you told me last time that the whole company works in Canva. Did you automate the creation of your own deck announcing the AI tools or did you make it all by hand?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">What\u2019s really cool about this new product release, it can be one shot generation and that is awesome, but the really exciting thing is it\u2019s actually also iterative. So it can lay out pages. So for example, you can take huge passages of text and then you can just lay that out with Canva AI. So you can actually be your companion, your creative partner as you\u2019re going through the process. So we didn\u2019t do it to just one shot generation for the entire deck, I have to say. But what we were able to do is use it for all the fine grain edits, the laying out of boxes and that sort of thing. So it really, it helped with the deck.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">But I think that\u2019s the exciting thing is that I think one shot generation is like AI 1.0 and being able to do iterative, agentic orchestration is really 2.0. So we\u2019re really excited about that. And then turn it into the press release doc. And it\u2019s really great at helping to create that first draft for us. And then we can use that to iterate, to collaborate because I think we both certainly know and everyone knows that that one shot generation might be a helpful starting point, but that really is the draft to then be able to iterate and refine from there.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>I\u2019m curious for this. I\u2019m just looking at pictures of the interface. It looks like a chatbot. You can ask it all kinds of questions, as you showed off, make me a content plan, do a bunch of stuff for me out on these platforms. You can connect directly to the platforms and have it published for you.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>That feels like, in particular, the cutting edge of marketing is automating the creation of assets and the publishing to platforms and collecting the data and iterating through that. But the interface is still a chatbot and it feels like maybe that\u2019s going to be the interface for everything forever. Did you experiment with other kinds of interfaces or is it just the open end text box as the end all, be all of AI?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">I think that\u2019s where I was going through those three tiers of pixels, objects, and concepts. I think that\u2019s what\u2019s really exciting to me is that in most chatbots out there, you\u2019re in a chat and you go backwards and forwards asking for the same thing and it will regenerate the entire thing over and over again. It\u2019s annoying. But with Canva AI, you\u2019ve got the ability to have conversational editing, which is extraordinarily powerful and brings completely new capabilities. But then you have the normal Canva that you know and love, where you can just drag and drop, you can collaborate, you can do all your iterative editing, you can go and change a word here and update that and not having to prompt to do that. So it actually helps to make complex things simple by bringing it all together into one spot.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">You\u2019ll see in the interfaces, Canva AI, it\u2019s a brand new tab inside the editor. And so you can go there, you can dictate into your phone, you can do it on the fly, get that first pass, and then it\u2019ll lay it out just in the normal Canva that you know and love, and then you can just edit that as you would typically do. So after a lot of experimentation, that was where we landed, that it\u2019s so powerful to be able to dictate for everyone\u2019s different accessibility needs, even accessibility needs on a day to day basis. Sometimes now I can just be talking to my phone, ask it to generate something and you can just do that on the fly, but then that creates a normal Canva design that you can collaborate, you can edit, you can use our hundred million plus stock photos and illustrations and drag and drop and design that. So really, the huge opportunity is this end to end workflow of being able to take an idea and turn that into a finished, usable work in one seamless platform. Yeah.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>Can I ask just a question about the relationship of the AI to the tools in Canva, and I\u2019m going to basically just do personal tech support with you.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">Yeah, go for it!<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>So I used Canva this week. My daughter\u2019s having a detective themed birthday party. And so we took photos of all her friends and we\u2019re going to make wanted posters.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">Awesome.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>I was like, \u201cI\u2019m going to talk to Melanie and I better use Canva to do this.\u201d It seemed very natural, so I could ask you very weedsy tech support questions. And just in the version of Canva that I was using, it was clear that the AI tools operated in some places and not others. They weren\u2019t seeing the whole Canva tool palette. And very simply it\u2019s background remover, which I believe is one of your most popular tools. It\u2019s everyone\u2019s most popular tool. I could do it in some parts of Canva, not the other. I couldn\u2019t look at my finished layout and say, \u201cActually, can you just go ahead and remove the background from this photo?\u201d I had to get to where I needed to be and then ask the question. Is the new Canva AI, can it address the whole set of tools? Is it using Canva as a whole or is it still narrowly sliced?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">You hit the nail on the head with what we were doing with Canva AI 2.0. You were using Canva AI 1.0. I\u2019m very excited to get your hands on Canva AI 2.0. We\u2019ll have to get you into the million, because it\u2019ll help you with exactly that. And so you can say for your example, for your wanted posters, create me the wanted poster. And you can upload the photos and it can actually orchestrate all of the different tools in Canva to be able to create that on the fly, without you having to go to the different spots. But you can still go and edit the different particular parts, the element editing if you want, but it actually is able to orchestrate it and then create a layered file in Canva\u2019s standard format.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>I think I understand how the user will see it. Architecturally, I\u2019m very curious how you build the product that way, because it doesn\u2019t seem like there\u2019s some industry standard way of saying, \u201cNow you can use this software.\u201d About half of the attempts I see are just taking screenshots of everything and very slowly clicking around. And there\u2019s an infinite number of variations on that approach. There\u2019s <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/news\/867673\/claude-mcp-app-interactive-slack-figma-canva\"><strong>the MCP approach<\/strong><\/a><strong>, which everyone was really high on and seems to have arrived at whatever point it\u2019s going to arrive at, and now maybe half the industry is back at, well, we should just do APIs. What approach did you land on?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">I think the reason we\u2019ve been able to make so much progress in this space, firstly was the decade of investment in this interoperable format. So being able to have this design format that spans presentations and whiteboards and docs and videos, the full gamut has been a really powerful part of why, when we launched the foundational model, the design foundational model, it actually is able to create across all of these different formats and is that layered file. Which means that you can operate at a full design level, you can operate on a page level, you can operate on a photo level or text. And so the huge investment in that space is why we\u2019ve been able to bring this to life with Canva AI 2.0. And there\u2019s an extraordinary amount of complexity behind the scenes.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">We\u2019ve had hundreds of people working on this project for some years to get to this point in time. But I think that the really important part is one of our engineers described it as an orchestra because there\u2019s so many tools and systems under the hood that need to talk together to be able to bring that thing to life. So when you say, \u201cI want to create a wanted poster for my daughter\u2019s birthday party,\u201d it will then be able to go and use background remover. It will be able to go and use all of the different tools to be able to assemble that. But from a user standpoint, they just get to say what they want and then we go and do the hard work to achieve that goal.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>I\u2019m just curious what bet you made there, because it feels like the industry is not coalesced on a strategy. So is it actually clicking around Canva or is there some other way of the AI addressing the tools?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">I won\u2019t go into technical detail there, because I think that we have had a few breakthroughs that made this all possible.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>The other question I have is who the model providers that you have doing this are. Because we are hearing every single day that token use rates for agentic software through the roof, or watching Anthropic have to modify its pricing. There\u2019s all kinds of stuff happening in that world, and you\u2019re launching an agentic AI product that, just from the interface alone, makes you want to use it a lot.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">I\u2019m happy to hear that.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>And Anthropic literally has, in Claude, there\u2019s a usage meter and it will tell you, \u201cYou\u2019re done now or pay us more money.\u201d Are you going to have a token usage meter in Canva in the same way?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">You asked so many questions in that very short space of time.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>There\u2019s more to come, don\u2019t worry.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">We have been investing in the areas that we really need to. Becoming domain experts in design has been a really critical part of our research strategy, but then partnering with incredible companies that are spending billions of dollars to build the best in their own areas and then bringing that technology onto Canva is also a key part of the way we\u2019re approaching this, being experts in design, because that\u2019s where we really need to specialize because there isn\u2019t great technology in that space. And then we\u2019ve got a 100-person research team working very specifically on these problems themselves.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">On the AI credit front, we have different tiering available for each of the different packages. So in free, you get limited credits and then in pro, we get much more generous. And then in our business package, you get far more generous, then enterprise even more so. But actually for the first million users, we\u2019re giving everyone an AI pass, which we\u2019re really excited about. So it\u2019s a $100 monthly pass. We\u2019re going to be giving everyone in that first million so they can just go completely wild and test out all of these new products. So we\u2019re really excited to see how that is used and see where it takes them.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>I want to come back to pricing, because I have a lot of questions about it, but first I just want to understand the product a little bit more. The <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/24191080\/canva-ceo-melanie-perkins-design-ai-adobe-competition-decoder-podcast-interview\"><strong>last time<\/strong><\/a><strong> you were on the show, you were making the inroads to enterprise. You would relaunch for enterprise and we talked a lot about how what you needed to do for enterprise was not necessarily product focused, but just workflow focused. You needed user authentication systems and management systems and dashboards and all that stuff, and you built it out. And that seems to be going really well. I think the numbers I have here are you\u2019re at $4 billion in annualized revenue, $500 million of which is enterprise. So in two years you\u2019ve grown. Is that the part of the business that\u2019s growing the most?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">The whole company is growing very rapidly, but yes, enterprise has been growing extremely rapidly. We grew by 100% over the last year, 95% of Fortune 500 companies and getting really deep footprints with thousands of people at companies now, which is extraordinary to see. We think that with Canva AI 2.0, we\u2019ll radically change that. It will be a huge step change again, and become the system at the center of work and really bring things together.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">I think a lot of people can relate right now. It feels like there are a lot of fragmented systems, things that are in lots of different places. We think being able to have that all on one platform, all of the work and all of the designs and presentations and documents, all in one place and with connectors being able to go even further and pull in context and information from your Gmail or your Slack, is going to be a huge step change for the way work gets done.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>That\u2019s the part I\u2019m really interested in, the idea that a company is just a collection of disparate databases that are not well organized or managed and that there\u2019s truth in those databases, if only we could read them all at the same time. That\u2019s a big part of the AI thesis in general. You hear it all over the place. I work with a bunch of cranky reporters. I don\u2019t think they put all their ideas in the databases, but I get it. There\u2019s a sense that there\u2019s a lot of opportunity in the disparate data sources in a company and you can bring them together to platform and then take action on it and achieve some results.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>Is Canva the right tool to do that work? You\u2019re <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/techcrunch.com\/2026\/04\/17\/anthropic-launches-claude-design-a-new-product-for-creating-quick-visuals\/\"><strong>right up against Claude<\/strong><\/a><strong>. Or you\u2019re right up against, I don\u2019t know, Oracle, whatever big enterprise business process automation vendor is going to say, \u201cAI will connect all your databases,\u201d and then there\u2019s Canva. And I\u2019m wondering if you want the whole opportunity or just the design opportunity.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">Well, to me, design, as we\u2019ve just talked about before, is bringing creativity and productivity together and being able to do that in a way that we think is pretty extraordinarily powerful. I had my own experience of this the other day, which blew my mind. I had to answer a whole bunch of questions that were going into all sorts of different questions over the last decade. And then I was able to just type it into Canva AI 2.0 each of the questions and I was able to construct answers based on all of my designs and all of my documents from the last decade.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">And it blew my mind that I was like, this is the only place that actually has this information about me. And so being able to have that full visual suite from docs to sheets, whiteboards, presentations, all of that context. And then I guess the other thing is that, when you think about it, most things end up in a design format of some description at the end of the process. And so being able to have all of that context right there beside the AI tools, we think is pretty powerful.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>I think that the thing I\u2019m curious about is where the primary interface for that lives. And you\u2019re obviously making the case that it should be Canva. For the CEO of Canva, it clearly is inside of Canva, but I could bring the CEO of Slack on here and they would happily tell you that that is Slack. Or I don\u2019t know, Microsoft will tell you that they\u2019re going to force-feed Copilot to you wherever you are, using a Microsoft product and that\u2019s where that should be. There are a lot of ideas about this.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>One of the things that makes that messy, in my mind, is that all of these products can now talk to each other in very specific ways. So Canva itself is a plugin for the other chatbots and it seems like the usage of that plugin is very high. How do you think about who owns the interface in a world where the core tool set might be usable somewhere else entirely that also has access to all that data and all that information that the company might have generated?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">The key focus for us is always: How do we empower our community the most? How do we help them to achieve their goals? So we\u2019re already embedded in organizations and businesses all around the world. And when they\u2019re creating a design today in Canva, it\u2019s quite a manual process. You have to go to all these different fragmented tools, collect all the information. And so being able to have that just inside the design tools, we think, will make a great deal of sense because it means that you\u2019re not&#8230; It\u2019s just cutting down manual and busy work, which is always the thing that we\u2019re doing for our customers. Like in 2019, we launched background remover and the whole point of that was you click the background remove button and then the background was removed, and that reduced a lot of manual work.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">Again, with this release, it\u2019s the same thing. There\u2019s a lot of manual work to go and collect all the information, collect all of the context, all in different places. And so having that just there where you\u2019re designing, we think, makes a lot of sense, where you\u2019ve already got huge repositories of your images across your company, where you\u2019ve already got all your brand templates, where you\u2019re already doing the collaboration. We think that makes a lot of sense. But really, we just want to be putting the tools that help to reduce busy work in the hands of our community and helping them to achieve their goals with less clicks.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>A few weeks ago, we <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/902264\/oktas-ceo-is-betting-big-on-ai-agent-identity\"><strong>had the CEO of Okta on the show<\/strong><\/a><strong>, Todd McKinnon, and he was like, \u201cThe future of Okta is managing agent permissions because this is a security nightmare and I will sell kill switches to every enterprise that has agents running rampant over its networks and databases.\u201d And so I hear what you\u2019re saying. It\u2019s like, okay, Slack is going to have a bunch of agents that can go talk to Canva\u2019s database of images. Canva will have a bunch of agents that can go talk to Slack\u2019s database of conversations, something else is going to happen over here. Does that seem like a workable picture of a company of the future, where all of these tools are accessing one another independently or do you think it will naturally land on just one?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">I think the cool thing is, for consumers, there\u2019s going to be choice about how they want to have their work stack set up. And I think it\u2019s a really exciting time in technology because there\u2019s just so many new possibilities for the way work gets done to reduce fragmentation. We\u2019ve got a quarter of a billion people using Canva today, so we think there\u2019s a huge opportunity to make AI simple and accessible, just like we did with design, but very importantly, helping to empower people to achieve their goals and to communicate their ideas. So we think we\u2019re pretty excited about what we\u2019re going to be able to bring out into the world.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>How does it work for you? What\u2019s the dynamic inside of Canva? Obviously you\u2019re on the bleeding edge of this technology and you obviously have your own tool. How does it work for you? Do all of your tools have AI access to all the other tools? Or do you work only in Canva and let Canva AI go talk to all the other tools? What\u2019s your setup?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">Obviously Canva\u2019s always had all my designs and my presentations and my documents, but being able to get connectors and being able to pull in information has been pretty astonishing. So for example, being able to say, \u201cHey, create me a plan for my next week and how I can optimize my time.\u201d And it being able to go and read my calendar and then create me a document about my upcoming week, it was like, \u201cThere\u2019s a lot going on.\u201d It told me I had a massage booked and I was really surprised about that because I didn\u2019t actually know until I read that in my Canva doc. And then I was like, \u201cOh, I think there\u2019s a bug here,\u201d and then I realized that my partner had organized that.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>The bug is, it\u2019s booking self-care for you whenever it wants.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">And so I think it\u2019s really cool because there\u2019s a lot of things that would be very manual, like going and doing a calendar audit, and that all of a sudden can actually just happen inside the one thing and it can actually create the presentation or it can create the document and then you can have people collaborating on that as you go.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">People talk about AI slop, and I think the AI slop is often one shot generation, you just take that and you put it somewhere else. I think what\u2019s really exciting with Canva is that that\u2019s really just the draft. That\u2019s the starting point. And then you can use it to iterate, you can use that through manual editing or you can use that through being able to iteratively edit through Canva AI inside the editor itself and to refine it to really be able to clearly articulate your idea. So we\u2019re pretty excited about the possibilities that it unlocks.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>I feel like it\u2019s time for the <\/strong><strong><em>Decoder <\/em><\/strong><strong>questions, because you\u2019ve talked about how much you use Canva internally. The last time I asked you how you make decisions. You said you had a process called decision decks, where you literally made Canva documents with all the pros and cons and you mocked up the products. Is that still the process?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">That is still the process. Prototyping has become a very key part of it. So often now there\u2019s a workable prototype before anything gets launched. I think the really fun thing about, I don\u2019t know if I talked to you about the complex decision making framework.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>No, this is new. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">Okay. Well, this, for anyone that needs to make complex decisions, I find this extremely helpful plitting it out into like, what are the goals, then what are the options, what are the pros and cons for each of the options? But it\u2019s really fun because now we have a template inside Canva, which is the complex decision making framework doc. And you can literally just dictate using dictation through Canva AI and it will actually go and fill out this template. So there\u2019s a lot of really exciting ways you can take your ideas and the thoughts in your head and then have that distilled in a way that other people can see and understand, which I guess is the essence of design.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">If you think about design in the sense that previously, design can sometimes be thought of as making things look pretty, but really design is about expressing ideas and being able to communicate that effectively and being able to turn something from an idea into reality. And so we think all these new tools really help to facilitate that. I use Canva Code all the time. I used to do a lot of mockups and now I use Canva Code to create prototypes all the time for every idea that I have, which is pretty powerful because it takes the idea far further than it could before.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>The other <\/strong><strong><em>Decoder <\/em><\/strong><strong>question is how the companies are structured. Last time, you were about 4,500 people and you described your structure as a very centralized product team and then lots and lots of local teams. And the metaphor you used was a cupcake and you said, \u201cWe work on the cupcake and we make the cupcake bigger and all the local teams work on the icing.\u201d Is that still the metaphor?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">Yeah, that\u2019s a fair metaphor. That one\u2019s been around for&#8230; The cupcake and the icing is actually so applicable in so many different ways. Small empowered teams are really the essence of how we get things done. And we\u2019re very much a goal-oriented structure.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">So for example, with Canva AI 2.0, we really brought everyone together across the company to achieve that goal and bring Canva AI 2.0 out into the world. We do show and tells every week so everyone can share and get deep context on what\u2019s happening. I think that \u201cgoal\u201d has really been the essence of how we\u2019ve achieved anything over the last decade, being able to rally around goals and have different team formations in order to achieve that.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>How many people is Canva now?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">Latest stat, about 5,000.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>So you\u2019ve been growing. I\u2019m really curious about, just in that context, decisions and structure, how you made the decision to say, \u201cOkay, we\u2019re going to do Canva 2.0 and we\u2019re going to lean heavily into AI the way that we\u2019re going to lean into AI.\u201d That\u2019s a lot of people. It\u2019s a big decision. I imagine that there was a decision making slide or a deck and then this feels like it inherently is a top-down decision. We\u2019re all doing this. Melanie says we\u2019re all doing this, we\u2019re all doing this. Walk me through that decision and walk me through any structure changes you had to make in order to accomplish it.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">Yeah, absolutely. So I\u2019m going to take us back to 2011 and to a deck that we had, which was called Canva\u2019s Chef, before Canva was even called Canva. And the first slide, when you go onto it, it\u2019s like, \u201cWhat do you want to chef up today?\u201d And then you could type into a search box and the idea was you could type whatever you wanted and then you\u2019d pop into the editor and you could collaborate and you could have the editing tools. If we shared it with you after this, you\u2019d see it\u2019s bizarrely similar to what we\u2019re launching today. So I guess this has been the dream for a really long time, but the technical ability to do this has been&#8230; hard. I\u2019d say in 2017, we had this document. We called it Getting Smart and we\u2019re like, \u201cIn the future, future, future, there\u2019s going to be search-driven design. Rather than going to the buffet and getting something, it\u2019ll be able to happen on the fly, like a chef cooking something up from the raw ingredients.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">And now it feels like we can actually do that. Back in October, we\u2019d been researching this space for some years with the foundational model that was a huge step, the design foundational model, that was a huge key piece. But then in October, there was a significant breakthrough in the company that meant that we could actually do it. So as soon as we saw that, we were all like, \u201cOh my goodness, this is really exciting and groundbreaking for what Canva can unlock.\u201d And so that was when we really started to go all-in and realize that that technology needed to be pushed as far as it could go, which is what we\u2019re launching today.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>Did you send out an email? Did you send out a Canva deck saying, \u201cWe\u2019re doing this now, decision made?\u201d How did that work?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">That is a great question. So there was a team working on it already, and then we really bolstered up that team. So then we said, \u201cOkay, we need to get every single person that can possibly help bring this to life onto the project.\u201d We started the weekly show-and-tell\u2019s, and we turned it into a more of a centralized AI team with hundreds of people. It went from a smaller team to then many hundreds of people to bring it to life, with everyone working on the different parts that needed to become part of this orchestra.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>I\u2019m curious. That structure part seems really interesting to me: \u201cWe have a software tool, a standard deterministic software tool with a select box and all that stuff, and we\u2019re going to build an AI that can use that tool. Now we\u2019ve got to take all the engineers we had and point them at that problem.\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>Did you have to rethink your product team, or did you just make the team that was working on that part larger?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">I think a little bit of both. Once the team had this big breakthrough, and we all saw it in action, we said, \u201cMy goodness, this is the coolest thing ever.\u201d We then had to figure out who could actually help from across the company. I think that\u2019s the goal-oriented structure I was mentioning before: when there\u2019s a goal, you need to figure out who are the people that can help bring this to life. And then we were doing a weekly show-and-tell so everyone could get a really clear understanding of where everything was at and all the pieces that needed to be orchestrated to come together.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">I think Canva already being interoperable meant that there were a lot of these things that had already been built and that then could just come together in an exciting way. We do something called the Canva jigsaw. We\u2019ve been doing different variations of the Canva jigsaw since the earliest days, which is often a goal and then all the pieces that need to be worked on independently to be able to bring that to life. That was exactly what we had at the center of this project again.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>You\u2019re fundamentally a software CEO. I think that\u2019s a fair description. I think you make software. The nature of software development itself seems to be undergoing some kind of existential crisis. One of our designers here at <\/strong><strong><em>The Verge<\/em><\/strong><strong> and Vox Media described all software development now as calibrating yourself to a database and just talking and seeing what happens and maybe that\u2019ll turn your brain to mush. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>Are you using as much Claude Code or Codex to make Canva, as it seems like every other company is racing to do?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">Yeah, I use Canva Code really extensively from the perspective of\u2013<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>When you say Canva Code, that\u2019s your own coding product? You\u2019re not using Claude Code or Codex?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">Yeah, because it\u2019s so cool. I used to create mockups all the time. Anytime I had an idea, I would create a mockup. And now anytime I have an idea, I can use Canva Code. But with this latest release, you can actually go in and edit the text. So you can actually code something, you can edit the text, you can drag and drop, you can move things around. We\u2019ve been really investing heavily on the AI front and upskilling our team.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>So can you make Canva with Canva Code?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">Yeah, we do make Canva with Canva Code, not deployed. We have many incredible engineers that actually make it sound to go out to hundreds of millions of people, but we use it for prototyping all the time.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>Yeah, I think the question I\u2019m asking is more about those folks and how you think about the costs associated with those folks. The nature of software engineering is changing in some big, meaningful way due, in particular, to the coding tools that are available. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>Are you rethinking how that works inside of Canva, as you ship new versions of Canva? Because for every other software CEO I talk to, their minds are exploding. They don\u2019t quite know how it\u2019s going to go, but they know it\u2019s definitely going to change forever.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">I think one of the things that we\u2019ve invested really heavily in is continuously upskilling our team and systems. So we\u2019ve taken a very intentional approach to give all of our team access to all of the latest and greatest tools. So we actually have not selected a winner. We have just given them everything. And it\u2019s been very intentional because we want everyone to be playing with the latest and greatest and to be upskilling all the time. We need to be upskilling every one of our systems.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">We need to be upskilling because the way we build product is completely different today. The way we do [quality assurance] is completely different today. The way we do actually every system and process inside the companies had to have an AI-native transformation. And so every specialty inside the company has had to have an AI-native transformation \u2014 what a designer does today, what an engineer does today, across every single part of the company.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">So it\u2019s been a huge area of investment on the tooling, on giving our team time, and on the specialties. We\u2019ve had this focus on AI everywhere and then AI impact and now AI-native because we really want to be rethinking everything in this AI era.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>There\u2019s some rebalancing of power between product managers, designers, and engineers because AI lets them all do each other\u2019s jobs. Where have you landed on that inside of Canva?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">I think we\u2019re all here to build the best experience we can. I think having really solid expertise has never been the best way to build product. In fact, great PMs often think about things from a design perspective. Great engineers often think about things from a design perspective. So really, it\u2019s about the team that is there to just create the best thing possible. And having people in their separate siloed, isolated lanes and saying, \u201cThat\u2019s my territory,\u201d was never a great way to build product.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">With AI, it\u2019s really leaning further into that. It\u2019s everyone thinking about what is the best product experience that we can build. And everyone will bring different skills to the fore. So a designer will obviously have a certain expertise, a PM will have certain expertise, an engineer will have certain expertise, but we\u2019ve always thought of it as a bit of a team sport where the best idea should be winning and everyone should be collaborating to create the best outcome that they possibly can for our community.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>So I understand this positive case for AI, and why you made the decision. I understand that the product promise of just \u201ctell this box what to make and it will make you a first draft and you can go on from there,\u201d based on the data you have. There\u2019s a pretty significant downside to AI, particularly as it relates to branding.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>There\u2019s polling here in the United States, at least, that basically is just bad vibes around AI. The last <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/ai-artificial-intelligence\/891724\/nbc-news-march-2026-poll-ai-ice\"><strong><em>NBC News<\/em><\/strong><strong> poll<\/strong><\/a><strong> that we are constantly citing is AI is polling under ICE in terms of favorability and just above the war in Iran. That\u2019s not a great place for AI to be.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>People are voting against data centers in their communities. AI is widely associated with job loss and maybe now you\u2019re going to cause some enterprise job loss because social media teams don\u2019t need to be as big as they needed to be anymore. There\u2019s <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/tech\/885710\/jack-dorsey-block-layoffs-job-cuts-ai\"><strong>a lot of layoffs<\/strong><\/a><strong> that are being <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.cnbc.com\/2026\/03\/31\/oracle-layoffs-ai-spending.html\"><strong>blamed on AI across the board<\/strong><\/a><strong>. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>You\u2019re leaning into AI with Canva. You\u2019re rebranding the whole product as having AI in it. How do you think about that downside risk, that people don\u2019t like it? The more they\u2019re exposed to it, the more they\u2019re saying, \u201cWait, stop. I don\u2019t want this around me.\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">I think it\u2019s like any tool. It will be whatever you want it to be. And so if you want it to help empower people, if you want it to help deliver better experiences for your customers, if you want it to uplift students and to give them great quality education materials, it can do that.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>Wait, can it do that? I\u2019m actually not so certain about the student thing.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">We launched something called <a href=\"https:\/\/go.skimresources.com\/?id=1025X1701640&amp;xs=1&amp;url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.canva.com%2Flearn-grid%2F\" rel=\"sponsored\">LearnGrid<\/a> and LearnGrid enables, across many countries, to be able to have the curriculum aligned content created. That can be worksheets and immediate feedback. So we\u2019re really excited about being able to put these tools in teachers\u2019 and students\u2019 hands around the world.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">We\u2019ve got 100 million teachers and students using Canva today, but the access to great tools is very divergent, depending on the wealth of a school, for example. So we\u2019re really excited about being able to bring that accessibility to students around the world.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>Right. But I think my question is more about slop, right? People are experiencing the tools that exist today, and maybe mostly they\u2019re experiencing the free version of ChatGPT or whatever AI Overview Google puts in front of them, running on the cheapest possible model at the biggest possible scale. And they\u2019re having these experiences. I know that the industry likes to say most people have never used AI and certainly no one\u2019s paying for it, but like a billion people have used ChatGPT and then the polling is the polling.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>I\u2019m just wondering how you\u2019re thinking about communicating this is an AI product because, to me, it feels like it comes with all kinds of baggage. I\u2019m watching OpenAI <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/ai-artificial-intelligence\/906022\/openai-buys-tbpn\"><strong>buy TBPN<\/strong><\/a><strong> because they think they have a marketing problem. I\u2019m watching all the venture capitalists say, \u201cThe media is lying about AI and it\u2019s going to change everything for the better.\u201d <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>And then you\u2019re racing into being like, \u201cCanva\u2019s AI now.\u201d I think you know that a bunch of designers are going to be very unhappy about this. There\u2019re some people who are going to just say, \u201cThis is bad. They\u2019re ruining the product.\u201d I\u2019m just wondering how you are thinking about navigating that balance.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">I think there\u2019s going to be a plethora of opinions on any topic. What we always do is just put what our community wants and needs at the center of it. So we\u2019ve had a lot of people asking, even yourself quite specifically, like, \u201cI\u2019ve got this goal. Why can\u2019t Canva AI just know everything about it and be able to help me with that first draft?\u201d So helping people to achieve their goals is always going to be at the center of what we do and that\u2019s exactly what drives these sorts of decisions.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">It is about being able to take out a lot of the manual work from being able to create and lay things out. So I really believe that AI should accelerate your vision and creativity, not override it. I think that it\u2019s really important that AI is just another tool in our toolkit and it will help achieve our goals, if we choose to use it. So we\u2019ve been really intentional about the product design, like Canva AI is a new tab. So if you just come in and you love templates, you can use that. If you come in and you just love the elements and just creating things from scratch, that\u2019s totally fine. That\u2019s totally cool.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">But if you want to be able to express an idea just by dictation or through typing, you can do that too. So I think it\u2019s really important that we understand that every one of our community members is at different stages and different scales of comfort with AI. We want to be making sure that we\u2019re helping to facilitate that. So I think this is the full spectrum and it\u2019s really important that Canva isn\u2019t turning into a chatbot by any stretch of the imagination, but if you do want to be able to just chat to something and have it help you out, you can do that too. So it\u2019s about really enabling all of that.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">I can\u2019t speak for other companies out there in the world. But Canva has benefited greatly from an incredible community. We\u2019ve got a quarter billion people that use Canva each month. There\u2019s a lot of love for our product. I think that that love really comes from being able to have Canva be the thing that helps people to express their ideas and turn that into reality. We take that extremely seriously. So with all of these product developments, we are continuing to keep that at our core and empowerment is such a critical principle for us that is very much through everything that you\u2019ll hopefully be seeing and touching very soon.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>Let me ask you about the competition because you\u2019re describing goals and when I talk to executives and they describe goals and what people really want, you often realize you\u2019re talking about business software. Your enterprise is growing for you and this very much feels like an enterprise offering to me. You\u2019re going to connect to all these other systems and you\u2019re going to get some work done and you\u2019re going to do work.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>That\u2019s what this feels like to me. And I know Canva has a big consumer base and a lot of people have fun with it. This feels like a work product. Is AI fundamentally enterprise software? To me, I don\u2019t think that people yearn for automation in their personal lives. I think you want to get rid of busy work at work so you can do something more important and a lot of work is inherently repetitive and AI just makes a lot of sense in this zone. Do you think AI is fundamentally enterprise software?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">I think you\u2019re right. Canva AI will totally be the system at the center of how work gets done, but that doesn\u2019t mean that if you\u2019re creating those wanted posters for your daughter\u2019s party, you can\u2019t be like, \u201cPull the invite list from the party coming up.\u201d And just wanting it to connect to that.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>This implies that I have good access to the database of the eight-year-old girls coming to my house next weekend, but I\u2019ll grant you that.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">But yeah, it often will be about work and work means many different things to many different people. So work can mean a teacher in a classroom, work can mean at a large company, work can mean a small business trying to just get their marketing collateral created. I think we\u2019ve shifted away from broadcast communication, where everything is one to many, to maybe having a hairdresser be able to send out a campaign on someone\u2019s birthday to say, \u201cHere\u2019s a special voucher for your birthday. We have that particular thing that you like.\u201d Being able to have that much more personal communication, I think is another aspect.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>It does feel to me like the cutting edge of social media marketing in particular is automation in this way. I probably watched more TikToks and Instagram Reels of social media managers explaining how they have built incredible dashboards using AI tools, and automated entire workflows and built content pipelines. You can see it. There\u2019s something very important happening there. Presumably Canva will participate in that and they will build those tools inside of Canva. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>Right next to that is Meta itself and TikTok and YouTube, which are all working on tools exactly like this. Mark Zuckerberg last year \u2014 I\u2019m just going to read you this quote \u2014 <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/stratechery.com\/2025\/an-interview-with-meta-ceo-mark-zuckerberg-about-ai-and-the-evolution-of-social-media\/\"><strong>said this to Ben Thompson<\/strong><\/a><strong>: \u201cIn general, we\u2019re going to get to a point where, if you\u2019re a business, you come to us, you tell us what your objective is, you connect to your bank account, you don\u2019t need any creative, you don\u2019t need any targeting, you don\u2019t need any measurement. You tell us the results you want and we will give them to you. You expect to be able to read the results that we spit out.\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>That\u2019s a redefinition of advertising. They\u2019re describing, to some extent, your product. You tell it what you want to achieve and AI is going to make a bunch of creative and schedule it across their platform. I know TikTok is working on this. I know YouTube is working on this. They all see this thing that they can sell to their biggest clients, their advertisers. How do you think about competing with the platform\u2019s own native capabilities that look a lot like what Canva\u2019s trying to make for marketers?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">It\u2019s actually funny. Back in 2012, we had this pitch and we called it the design engine. And we said all these other platforms are going to have tools and they did. Lots of companies have lots of different tools for a specific platform, but it\u2019s annoying because as a company, you probably want to be advertising in lots of different places. You probably want to be having your pitch decks and your docs and all the different things and you don\u2019t want to have that fragmented across lots of different tools and systems.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">So Canva is everything in one place, rather than having to go and have your knowledge in lots of different places. So that\u2019s, I guess, one of the key things that we\u2019ve been leaning into for the last decade is that Canva can be that thing that is at the center of your work.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>So the back and forth there is these platforms either have bad analytics or are not very generous in sharing their analytics or make you pay extra to access their analytics. Meta obviously has its own models. Google obviously has its own models. They might say, \u201cLook, if you want to run this creative, you have to make it in our tools. If you want to use this stuff, we will throttle you if you come to us with creative made elsewhere. We\u2019re going to push you towards our tools. So you use our models and we get two bites of the apple on token pricing.\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>I\u2019ve heard this from a bunch of AI CEOs, that database access in general is going to become a new pricing vector. We\u2019re going to charge for tools. If you want to connect to our system, the customer will have to pay some higher access fee. Have you seen any glimmers of this yet or is it too early to say?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">I\u2019d say, A, it\u2019s too early, but B, I think that hopefully the customer wins out of all of this.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>That\u2019s very optimistic.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">Hopefully the customer is able to achieve their goals and use the tools that they want to use. I guess at the end of the day, why I\u2019ve been so infatuated with design is that design is imagining the future and then willing it into existence. And so, design really radically helps that process. You mentioned optimism. I think that\u2019s why I love design so much is because you do have to imagine the future that you want and then you can work to bring it into reality.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>The reality is Mark Zuckerberg exists and he\u2019s very, very, very competitive. There\u2019s also that piece of it. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">I think they also like money. I think from our experience, they love to have creative because creative is the blocker.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong><em>[Laughs]<\/em><\/strong><strong> Did you say they like money? I heard you. Well, I mean, look\u2026 I know a lot of social media people who take it as an article of faith\u2013<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><em>[Laughs] <\/em>Let me give a little clarity on that. They\u2019re not going to stop advertising. Their company is built on advertising, so they\u2019re going to want to take creative from wherever to have it on their platform. In fact, the lack of companies being able to create great advertising materials has been a huge blocker from people being able to advertise on their platform. And so I don\u2019t think they\u2019re going to be sad about creating it in Canva.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>I\u2019m curious how this one plays out because the other thing that I see at Meta doing is investing heavily in AI themselves. Every week, Zuck has spent another $200 trillion hiring three AI researchers who are going to build him the best model. Who knows how that will pay off. The same way who knows how any of this will pay off.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>But one way it could pay off is for Zuckerberg to say, \u201cIf you want to buy advertising on our platform, you\u2019re going to generate it with our AI models. And because we own the model, we can charge you less than Melanie, who has to go buy tokens from someone else and pay their margin and pay her margin.\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>I know a lot of social media managers who are fully convinced that they need to make their videos in Instagram\u2019s Edits app because Instagram will promote it more heavily, even if they\u2019re not actually making the videos, even if they\u2019re just feeding it through to get whatever little metadata that says \u201cEdits.\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>Maybe that\u2019s true and maybe it\u2019s not, but the perception of Meta as a platform, the perception of YouTube as a platform, is that they will self preference in this way. So if they\u2019re also the model providers and they can have lower pricing and the perception of self-preferencing, how do you expect to come up against that?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">Let\u2019s check back in a few years.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>Okay. I thought that\u2019s what you would say, but I just see it coming. Especially for Meta, which has to find some way to make money with the models they\u2019re building. As of yet, I don\u2019t know what it is except for maybe they\u2019re doing Reels targeting on GPUs.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">I can\u2019t speak for them and their business model, but I can certainly say, from a customer\u2019s perspective, being able to create all of the content that you want in one place, having little friction between that, being able to deploy into lots of places is what we\u2019ve been specializing in for, I\u2019d say, the last decade. And certainly being able to take that to other platforms has been great for our customers, but then also great for the other platforms because then they\u2019re able to have all these people that can do their marketing on those platforms.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>The last time we talked to your model provider was OpenAI, I believe. Is that still the primary partner?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">We partner with OpenAI and Anthropic and then, of course, our own internal models. We love to collaborate with everyone.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>Are their models interchangeable? Or do you use them for specific tasks inside of Canva AI?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">We always take the best model for the best task, continuously. So it\u2019s been great to have so many great partners in the space, from Google to Anthropic and OpenAI.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>My sense of the situation is that every token costs the big company\u2019s money, that they\u2019re all subsidizing token use. At some point that\u2019s going to turn, right? They\u2019re going to want to make a penny of profit on every token. What does that do to your pricing when that happens?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">Investing in our own models has been a really core part of our strategy and we were able to bring the cost down, the latency down. And the price is being driven down radically. If you look at the price of LLM queries, it\u2019s gone down 50 times in the last three years. So it\u2019s pretty exciting from that standpoint of having so many big companies racing to provide the cheapest models.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>When you say your own models, actually, are you in the fight for GPUs? Are you training them on someone else\u2019s cloud? How\u2019s that working?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">Yeah, it\u2019s been a really important area of investment, which is why we\u2019ve got our own research team of 100 people that are investing in the areas that we need. So for example, I was mentioning the design side \u2014 like Magic Layers was from our own research org. It\u2019s been really exciting to invest in the areas that other companies aren\u2019t.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">We don\u2019t need to go and compete in areas where there are billions of dollars of investment already happening, but in the areas that we know we can give great advantage to our customers, we certainly do that. So Magic Layers lets you now take any image from wherever you might generate it into Canva and then it will actually split it out into layers, so you can just edit it like a Canva template, which is pretty exciting.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>Does Magic Layers happen on your models or are you going out? <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">Yeah, that\u2019s certainly our models.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>That\u2019s really cool. When you\u2019ve made the decisions to invest in your own models versus going out to other providers, is there a cost performance ratio? How do you make that decision? Because investing in your own models is expensive.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">It is expensive, but for example, Magic Layers has had eight million uses in the four weeks since launching. It really hit a pain point that people had, which was that you generate something and you have to go and reprompt the LLM over and over again to be able to do it. So being able to just go in and make that tiny little text tweak or to be able to collaborate or whatever it might be has been really important.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">So I guess every time we\u2019re choosing a model, it\u2019s about \u201cwhat is the best in the world?\u201d We want to have price brackets for each of the different areas of our company. So you\u2019ve got different models, you can choose your premium models or you can choose standard models. So we are domain experts in design and visual AI. And so that\u2019s been really the focus of our research and development.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>You said you don\u2019t want to talk about your competitors, but I want to wrap up by talking about your biggest competitor. We spent some time on it the last time you were on the show. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">I\u2019m actually curious, I don\u2019t even know who you\u2019re going to name. Who\u2019s our biggest competitor?<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>I think it\u2019s Adobe. I think in the world of creative software for professionals, it\u2019s obviously Adobe. And maybe Canva\u2019s more consumer than that. Who do you think your biggest competitor is?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">I shouldn\u2019t have opened that question up, should I? I should have let you go on\u2013<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong><em>[Laughs]<\/em><\/strong><strong> You walked right into this.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">I know, I know. When we set out years ago, we were like, there\u2019s this huge gap in the market. There weren\u2019t tools that enabled easy design and that were rapid and enabled creative freedom. And I think that that\u2019s exactly what we want to do, with Canva AI 2.0 bringing creativity and productivity together, being this place where you can get all of your work done in one place.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">I don\u2019t really think of them as competitors. There are our community of a quarter billion people that we need to satisfy and help them achieve their goals. We really focus on running our own race and filling the gap in the market.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>No, but you have to answer. Who\u2019s your biggest competitor?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">Who\u2019s our biggest competitor?<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>You can\u2019t say no one. You can\u2019t be a $4 billion company with no competitors. That\u2019s not a choice.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">I think the way we think about it, it would be actually a bad business decision to be like, \u201cYou know what I\u2019m going to do? I\u2019m going to go and create this product that another company has created.\u201d That wouldn\u2019t make any sense. We literally go in and we say, \u201cWhere is the gap in the market? Where are users currently having friction?\u201d<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>I like what you\u2019re doing, and I appreciate it and it\u2019s very good, but it has to be someone. Who do you want to take market share from and who might take market share from you?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">I don\u2019t know that I have a great answer for you. I think there\u2019s a lot of fragmented tools right now and having that in one place, I think, is going to be the gap in the market that we fill.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>Were you born this way? You\u2019re such a pro. It\u2019s very good. It\u2019s incredible. I\u2019m impressed. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">You can name some. Who do you think? I\u2019ll let you say whoever you think.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>I do think it\u2019s Adobe. And specifically, when I think about the Canva community, it\u2019s a lot of people who need to make something as consumers or as a one-off at their company and they graduate to the full suite. I think we have talked about that journey for a lot of folks. And when I was young, getting my first legal Photoshop license was a marker. And I think that is still a marker for a lot of people. I think Premier is a marker for a lot of creators, being able to afford that software.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>I think Adobe is a different company, and maybe you don\u2019t think they\u2019re a competitor, but they occupy the same space for a lot of creatives, in a lot of ways. Their products line up right with yours. You can prompt Photoshop in exactly the way that you were talking about prompting Canva, and Adobe will tell you that its PDF business is the best business database that has ever existed in the history of the world, and they\u2019re going to line it all up. I know what they\u2019re going to do.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>One of the things that I think is the most interesting, when I line up these two companies, is, in general, people love Canva. I think that, on balance, is true. I\u2019m very curious to see how that goes once you put AI in front of everybody. I think that there\u2019s some risk there, and in general, people <\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/tech\/913765\/adobe-rivals-free-creative-software-app-updates\"><strong>are really mad at Adobe all the time<\/strong><\/a><strong>. That is just the nature of those two companies, the way they\u2019re situated right now. <\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>So I\u2019ve got to ask you this. Shantanu Narayen is leaving Adobe. He announced he\u2019s going. We don\u2019t know who the new CEO is going to be. Who do you think the next CEO of Adobe should be?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><em>[Laughs] <\/em>I definitely can\u2019t comment on that.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>Yeah you can. Should it be you?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">No, definitely not. Maybe you can, but then we-<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>No. Nobody wants me to be in charge of PDFs in the world. You don\u2019t want that at all. But I\u2019m asking, if you\u2019re looking at this, there\u2019s a leadership change coming. Do you see that as an opportunity? Do you see that as, I will say, your competitor, retrenching? But I\u2019m curious how you are perceiving that changeover there.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">Honestly, we really have been pretty busy just focusing on our quarter billion users to try to make sure that we\u2019re putting great products in their hands.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>Very good.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">I just genuinely haven\u2019t given that any consideration.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>Really? No one sent you a text, like, \u201cHe\u2019s leaving\u201d?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">I was aware of it, but it\u2019s not where my mind is focused. I\u2019ll give you the way I think about the world. I always think it\u2019s an internal locus of control and external locus of control. Things that you can control, that actually have an impact and then things that are completely outside your control. I really focus on the things that are within our control and that\u2019s delivering a great product to our customers that is helping to close our community\u2019s wishes. And then the things that are outside of my control, I literally just don\u2019t focus my time and energy on because there\u2019s quite a bit inside the internal locus of control.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>One of the reasons that I think designers are always mad at Adobe is their pricing goes up; they change the plans, they charge for more, and features go away. You\u2019re at a scale with Canva now where you have what I would call the Microsoft Word problem, where the toolbar has to have every button in it because you\u2019re so big that even if it\u2019s only 1 percent of users who use the button, it\u2019s still millions of people and you can\u2019t have millions of people mad at you because you remove the button.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>That feels like Canva\u2019s at this scale, which is why AI is in a tab, right? You can\u2019t change it too much. How do you think about making sure your Canva customers, who all use the product every day, seem to be very happy with you and stay happy with you, even as you roll out these products that might fundamentally threaten their jobs or how they work?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">I think all of those considerations you said are absolutely very much something we focus greatly on. So for example, when we launched Canva AI, what we\u2019re really excited about is there\u2019s so much breadth and depth in Canva\u2019s product now that a casual user might not be aware of all of the different things and capabilities that Canva can do. Many users are very deeply aware of every single button in Canva, but Canva AI really brings that all together.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">So you could just say whatever it is that you want and you might not know the specific tools that you need to be able to use to bring that to life, but it can do it for you. So we\u2019re really excited about how that will be able to make complex things simple even from the perspective of being able to create your first design in Canva.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">We also do an extraordinary amount of user testing and we do that with existing Canva community members, and with new users, and that really helps to refine the products before we\u2019re getting them out the door and into our community\u2019s hands. We get <a href=\"https:\/\/www.reddit.com\/r\/canva\/comments\/1lw5pt0\/icymi_canva_granted_a_bunch_of_features_from_the\/\">more than one million wishes a year<\/a> from our community and so we have actually just granted 40 of them at Canva Create.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">So all of these things that we\u2019re doing are very much in partnership with our community. And I think that\u2019s a really key part for us, is that we want to be building Canva in partnership with our community, getting their feedback, helping to learn from what they want, what they need to do to achieve their goals. And that\u2019s very much at the center of how we think about it.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>All right. I need to ask you one very important question right at the end.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">Sure.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>Do you promise to keep Affinity free?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">Yes, absolutely. We\u2019ve made that absolutely key commitment.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>Just checking. I feel like every time I talk to you, someone tells me, \u201cMake sure you ask her if Affinity\u2019s going to stay free.\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">I can very much say Affinity is going to be staying free. It\u2019s a critical thing. We knew that that was a really critical part of why Affinity was created in the first place \u2014 being able to make it more accessible. And then a key part of Canva has always been having our free product. We\u2019ve got hundreds of millions of people using our free product. Affinity itself has had more than 5 million downloads since we announced it. So yeah, it\u2019s a really key part. Affinity is free and will be.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>That\u2019s great. Canva 2.0 is basically in beta, right? You\u2019ve announced it, but it\u2019s in a small beta.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">Yeah, in a research preview.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>When does it go big?<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\">At Canva Create, we gave one million people access to Canva AI 2.0. And so we\u2019re really excited to be watching how everyone is using it and how it\u2019s helping them to achieve their goals.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><strong>Great. Well, I look forward to getting secret access to it so I can make even more silly posters for birthday parties. Melanie, it\u2019s always so much fun talking to you. Thank you so much for being on <\/strong><strong><em>Decoder<\/em><\/strong><strong>.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _17nnmdya _1xwtict1\">Thank you so much for having me. Thanks for your great questions.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup duet--article--standard-paragraph _1ymtmqpi _17nnmdy1 _17nnmdy0 _1xwtict1\"><em><sub>Questions or comments about this episode? Hit us up at decoder@theverge.com. We really do read every email!<\/sub><\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--article--block-placement _1o279nj1 _1o279nj0 duet--article--article-body-component\">\n<div class=\"duet--article--action-box _1ymtmqpj _1ymtmqpz yapvud2 yapvud0\">\n<div class=\"yapvud5 yapvud3\">\n<h2 class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup yapvud6\">Decoder with Nilay Patel<\/h2>\n<p class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup\">A podcast from <em>The Verge<\/em> about big ideas and other problems.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<p><a class=\"duet--cta--button _1f7jm892 _1f7jm890 yapvud9 yapvud7\" href=\"https:\/\/pod.link\/decoder\"><span>SUBSCRIBE NOW!<\/span><\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"tly2fw0\"><span class=\"tly2fw2\"><strong>Follow topics and authors<\/strong> from this story to see more like this in your personalized homepage feed and to receive email updates.<\/span><\/p>\n<ul class=\"tly2fw3\">\n<li id=\"follow-author-article_footer-dmcyOmF1dGhvclByb2ZpbGU6NjAx\"><span 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foldable<\/div>\n<p><\/a><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1joemdy7 _1joemdy6 _1ymtmqpz\"><\/div>\n<\/li>\n<li class=\"_1joemdy4 _1joemdy3\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/gadgets\/912620\/cheap-gadgets-tech-under-50-tools-headphones-fitness-trackers\">\n<div class=\"_1joemdya _1joemdy9\">Cheap stuff that doesn\u2019t suck, take 3<\/div>\n<p><\/a><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1joemdy7 _1joemdy6 _1ymtmqpz\"><\/div>\n<\/li>\n<li class=\"_1joemdy4 _1joemdy3\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/transportation\/913008\/infinite-machine-olto-ebike-review\">\n<div class=\"_1joemdya _1joemdy9\">The Cybertruck of e-bikes is here to replace your car<\/div>\n<p><\/a><\/p>\n<div class=\"_1joemdy7 _1joemdy6 _1ymtmqpz\"><\/div>\n<\/li>\n<li class=\"_1joemdy4 _1joemdy3\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/tech\/914723\/vercel-hacked\">\n<div class=\"_1joemdya _1joemdy9\">Cloud development platform Vercel was hacked<\/div>\n<p><\/a><\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_1xql9yl2 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class=\"n5bh2k4\">\n<div class=\"duet--layout--header-pattern mq7s702\">\n<div class=\"mq7s703\">\n<div class=\"duet--layout--page-header wh8b410\">\n<div class=\"wh8b41j wh8b41f\">\n<h2 class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup wh8b41o wh8b41m _1xwtict2\">More in <a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\">Podcasts<\/a><\/h2>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"sticky-nav-trigger\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"mq7s704\">\n<div>\n<div class=\"_1owd140\">\n<div class>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _184mfto0 _1lkmsmo3\">\n<div class=\"_184mfto7 _184mftop _184mftoa _10f040q3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"The \u2018AI is inevitable\u2019 trap\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"x271pn0\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/VRG_VST_0417_Site.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"_184mfto6\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_1xwtict9 _1pm20r57 _1pm20r50\"><a class=\"_1lkmsmo0 _1lkmsmo4 _1lkmsmo5\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/913792\/ai-divide-sam-altman-vergecast\">The \u2018AI is inevitable\u2019 trap<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _184mfto0 _1lkmsmo3\">\n<div class=\"_184mfto7 _184mftop _184mftoa _10f040q3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Ronan Farrow on Sam Altman\u2019s \u2018unconstrained\u2019 relationship with the truth\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"x271pn0\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/altman_illo.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/p>\n<div class=\"_10f040q1 _10f040q4\"><title>Play<\/title><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"_184mfto6\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_1xwtict9 _1pm20r57 _1pm20r50\"><a class=\"_1lkmsmo0 _1lkmsmo4 _1lkmsmo5\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/911753\/sam-altman-openai-ronan-farrow-new-yorker-feature-trust-liar-ai-industry\">Ronan Farrow on Sam Altman\u2019s \u2018unconstrained\u2019 relationship with the truth<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _184mfto0 _1lkmsmo3\">\n<div class=\"_184mfto7 _184mftop _184mftoa _10f040q3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Ben McKenzie vs. crypto\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"x271pn0\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/VRG_VST_0414_Site.png?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"_184mfto6\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_1xwtict9 _1pm20r57 _1pm20r50\"><a class=\"_1lkmsmo0 _1lkmsmo4 _1lkmsmo5\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/911605\/ben-mckenzie-crypto-cgm-wearables-vergecast\">Ben McKenzie vs. crypto<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _184mfto0 _1lkmsmo3\">\n<div class=\"_184mfto7 _184mftop _184mftoa _10f040q3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Can Puck reinvent the news business for the influencer age?\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"x271pn0\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/DCD_Personette_Puck.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/p>\n<div class=\"_10f040q1 _10f040q4\"><title>Play<\/title><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"_184mfto6\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_1xwtict9 _1pm20r57 _1pm20r50\"><a class=\"_1lkmsmo0 _1lkmsmo4 _1lkmsmo5\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/910443\/can-puck-reinvent-the-news-business-for-the-influencer-age\">Can Puck reinvent the news business for the influencer age?<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _184mfto0 _1lkmsmo3\">\n<div class=\"_184mfto7 _184mftop _184mftoa _10f040q3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"How AT&amp;T created the most iconic phone ever\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"x271pn0\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/WE500_Site.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"_184mfto6\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_1xwtict9 _1pm20r57 _1pm20r50\"><a class=\"_1lkmsmo0 _1lkmsmo4 _1lkmsmo5\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/910725\/western-electric-500-att-version-history\">How AT&amp;T created the most iconic phone ever<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _184mfto0 _1lkmsmo3\">\n<div class=\"_184mfto7 _184mftop _184mftoa _10f040q3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Fear and loathing at OpenAI\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"x271pn0\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/VRG_VST_0410_Site.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"_184mfto6\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_1xwtict9 _1pm20r57 _1pm20r50\"><a class=\"_1lkmsmo0 _1lkmsmo4 _1lkmsmo5\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/909621\/openai-sam-altman-drama-vergecast\">Fear and loathing at OpenAI<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_1owd142\">\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ufh7nr1 _1ufh7nr0 _1lkmsmo3 _1ufh7nrj _1ufh7nr5\">\n<div class=\"_1ufh7nr7 _1ufh7nr6 _1ufh7nrc _1ufh7nrh _10f040q3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"The \u2018AI is inevitable\u2019 trap\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ufh7nrf x271pn0\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/VRG_VST_0417_Site.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=16.666666666667%2C0%2C66.666666666667%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"The \u2018AI is inevitable\u2019 trap\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ufh7nrg x271pn0\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/VRG_VST_0417_Site.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"_1ufh7nri\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_1xwtict9 _1pm20r53 _1pm20r50\"><a class=\"_1lkmsmo0 _1lkmsmo4\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/913792\/ai-divide-sam-altman-vergecast\">The \u2018AI is inevitable\u2019 trap<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_2xqpwjd _2xqpwj0\"><span><span class=\"_1lldluw2 _1xwtict5\"><span><span>David Pierce<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp tvl9dp2 tvl9dp0 _1xwtict5 _1ymtmqps\"><time datetime=\"2026-04-17T13:24:34+00:00\">Apr 17<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ufh7nr1 _1ufh7nr0 _1lkmsmo3 _1ufh7nr5\">\n<div class=\"_1ufh7nr7 _1ufh7nr6 _1ufh7nrc _1ufh7nrh _10f040q3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Ronan Farrow on Sam Altman\u2019s \u2018unconstrained\u2019 relationship with the truth\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ufh7nrf x271pn0\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/altman_illo.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=16.666666666667%2C0%2C66.666666666667%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Ronan Farrow on Sam Altman\u2019s \u2018unconstrained\u2019 relationship with the truth\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ufh7nrg x271pn0\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/altman_illo.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/p>\n<div class=\"_10f040q1 _10f040q4\"><title>Play<\/title><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_1ufh7nri\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_1xwtict9 _1pm20r53 _1pm20r50\"><a class=\"_1lkmsmo0 _1lkmsmo4\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/911753\/sam-altman-openai-ronan-farrow-new-yorker-feature-trust-liar-ai-industry\">Ronan Farrow on Sam Altman\u2019s \u2018unconstrained\u2019 relationship with the truth<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_2xqpwjd _2xqpwj0\"><span><span class=\"_1lldluw2 _1xwtict5\"><span><span>Nilay Patel<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp tvl9dp2 tvl9dp0 _1xwtict5 _1ymtmqps\"><time datetime=\"2026-04-16T14:00:00+00:00\">Apr 16<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ufh7nr1 _1ufh7nr0 _1lkmsmo3 _1ufh7nr5\">\n<div class=\"_1ufh7nr7 _1ufh7nr6 _1ufh7nrc _1ufh7nrh _10f040q3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Ben McKenzie vs. crypto\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ufh7nrf x271pn0\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/VRG_VST_0414_Site.png?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=16.666666666667%2C0%2C66.666666666667%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Ben McKenzie vs. crypto\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ufh7nrg x271pn0\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/VRG_VST_0414_Site.png?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"_1ufh7nri\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_1xwtict9 _1pm20r53 _1pm20r50\"><a class=\"_1lkmsmo0 _1lkmsmo4\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/911605\/ben-mckenzie-crypto-cgm-wearables-vergecast\">Ben McKenzie vs. crypto<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_2xqpwjd _2xqpwj0\"><span><span class=\"_1lldluw2 _1xwtict5\"><span><span>David Pierce<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp tvl9dp2 tvl9dp0 _1xwtict5 _1ymtmqps\"><time datetime=\"2026-04-14T13:34:32+00:00\">Apr 14<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ufh7nr1 _1ufh7nr0 _1lkmsmo3 _1ufh7nr5\">\n<div class=\"_1ufh7nr7 _1ufh7nr6 _1ufh7nrc _1ufh7nrh _10f040q3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Can Puck reinvent the news business for the influencer age?\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ufh7nrf x271pn0\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/DCD_Personette_Puck.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=16.666666666667%2C0%2C66.666666666667%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Can Puck reinvent the news business for the influencer age?\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ufh7nrg x271pn0\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/DCD_Personette_Puck.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/p>\n<div class=\"_10f040q1 _10f040q4\"><title>Play<\/title><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_1ufh7nri\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_1xwtict9 _1pm20r53 _1pm20r50\"><a class=\"_1lkmsmo0 _1lkmsmo4\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/910443\/can-puck-reinvent-the-news-business-for-the-influencer-age\">Can Puck reinvent the news business for the influencer age?<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_2xqpwjd _2xqpwj0\"><span><span class=\"_1lldluw2 _1xwtict5\"><span><span>Nilay Patel<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp tvl9dp2 tvl9dp0 _1xwtict5 _1ymtmqps\"><time datetime=\"2026-04-13T14:00:00+00:00\">Apr 13<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ufh7nr1 _1ufh7nr0 _1lkmsmo3 _1ufh7nr5\">\n<div class=\"_1ufh7nr7 _1ufh7nr6 _1ufh7nrc _1ufh7nrh _10f040q3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"How AT&amp;T created the most iconic phone ever\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ufh7nrf x271pn0\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/WE500_Site.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=16.666666666667%2C0%2C66.666666666667%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"How AT&amp;T created the most iconic phone ever\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ufh7nrg x271pn0\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/WE500_Site.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"_1ufh7nri\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_1xwtict9 _1pm20r53 _1pm20r50\"><a class=\"_1lkmsmo0 _1lkmsmo4\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/910725\/western-electric-500-att-version-history\">How AT&amp;T created the most iconic phone ever<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_2xqpwjd _2xqpwj0\"><span><span class=\"_1lldluw2 _1xwtict5\"><span><span>David Pierce<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp tvl9dp2 tvl9dp0 _1xwtict5 _1ymtmqps\"><time datetime=\"2026-04-12T13:28:46+00:00\">Apr 12<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ufh7nr1 _1ufh7nr0 _1lkmsmo3 _1ufh7nrk _1ufh7nrl _1ufh7nr5\">\n<div class=\"_1ufh7nr7 _1ufh7nr6 _1ufh7nrc _1ufh7nrh _10f040q3\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Fear and loathing at OpenAI\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ufh7nrf x271pn0\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/VRG_VST_0410_Site.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=16.666666666667%2C0%2C66.666666666667%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Fear and loathing at OpenAI\" data-chromatic=\"ignore\" loading=\"lazy\" data-nimg=\"fill\" class=\"_1ufh7nrg x271pn0\" style=\"position:absolute;height:100%;width:100%;left:0;top:0;right:0;bottom:0;color:transparent;background-size:cover;background-position:50% 50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;)\" src=\"https:\/\/platform.theverge.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/04\/VRG_VST_0410_Site.jpg?quality=90&amp;strip=all&amp;crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C100&amp;w=2400\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"_1ufh7nri\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class><\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_1xwtict9 _1pm20r53 _1pm20r50\"><a class=\"_1lkmsmo0 _1lkmsmo4\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/podcast\/909621\/openai-sam-altman-drama-vergecast\">Fear and loathing at OpenAI<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_2xqpwjd _2xqpwj0\"><span><span class=\"_1lldluw2 _1xwtict5\"><span><span>David Pierce<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp tvl9dp2 tvl9dp0 _1xwtict5 _1ymtmqps\"><time datetime=\"2026-04-10T12:23:18+00:00\">Apr 10<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--ad--native-ad-linkset _8tvx5m4 _8tvx5m5 _8tvx5ma hidden\" data-native-ad-id=\"container\">\n<div>\n<div class=\"visually-hidden\">\n<div class=\"dynamic-native-ad-native_ad_linkset_link\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/\" aria-label=\"Advertisement\"><\/p>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"_8tvx5m7\"><span data-native-ad-id=\"preamble\" class=\"_8tvx5m8 _8tvx5m9\">Advertiser Content From<\/span><\/p>\n<div><img data-native-ad-id=\"logo\" src alt=\"Sponsor Logo\" class=\"_8tvx5mg\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p class=\"_8tvx5mj\" data-native-ad-id=\"title\">This is the title for the native ad<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<p><\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"n5bh2k6\">\n<div class=\"duet--layout--header-pattern mq7s702\">\n<div class=\"mq7s703\">\n<div class=\"duet--layout--page-header wh8b410\">\n<div class=\"wh8b41j wh8b41f\">\n<h2 class=\"duet--article--dangerously-set-cms-markup wh8b41o wh8b41m _1xwtict2\">Top Stories<\/h2>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"sticky-nav-trigger\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"mq7s704\">\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ufh7nr0 _1lkmsmo3 _1ufh7nrj _1ufh7nr5\">\n<div class=\"_1ufh7nri\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"_2xqpwj4 _2xqpwj0\"><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp tvl9dp7 tvl9dp0 _1xwtict5\"><time datetime=\"2026-04-20T12:00:00+00:00\">12:00 PM UTC<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_1xwtict9 _1pm20r57 _1pm20r50\"><a class=\"_1lkmsmo0 _1lkmsmo4 _1lkmsmo5\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/reviews\/913706\/dji-mini-power-station-review-comparison\">DJI\u2019s latest power station is proof that good things come in mini packages<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ufh7nr0 _1lkmsmo3 _1ufh7nr5\">\n<div class=\"_1ufh7nri\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"_2xqpwj4 _2xqpwj0\"><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp tvl9dp7 tvl9dp0 _1xwtict5\"><time datetime=\"2026-04-20T13:00:00+00:00\">1:00 PM UTC<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_1xwtict9 _1pm20r57 _1pm20r50\"><a class=\"_1lkmsmo0 _1lkmsmo4 _1lkmsmo5\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/games\/913410\/vampire-survivors-new-spinoff-switches-genres-but-keeps-the-good-vibes\">Vampire Survivors\u2019 new spinoff switches genres but keeps the good vibes<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ufh7nr0 _1lkmsmo3 _1ufh7nr5\">\n<div class=\"_1ufh7nri\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"_2xqpwj4 _2xqpwj0\"><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp tvl9dp7 tvl9dp0 _1xwtict5\"><time datetime=\"2026-04-20T13:00:00+00:00\">1:00 PM UTC<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_1xwtict9 _1pm20r57 _1pm20r50\"><a class=\"_1lkmsmo0 _1lkmsmo4 _1lkmsmo5\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/tech\/913874\/prego-connection-keeper-bundle-voice-recorder-storycorps\">This pasta sauce wants to record your family<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ufh7nr0 _1lkmsmo3 _1ufh7nr5\">\n<div class=\"_1ufh7nri\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"_2xqpwj4 _2xqpwj0\"><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp tvl9dp7 tvl9dp0 _1xwtict5\"><time datetime=\"2026-04-19T12:00:00+00:00\">Apr 19<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_1xwtict9 _1pm20r57 _1pm20r50\"><a class=\"_1lkmsmo0 _1lkmsmo4 _1lkmsmo5\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/column\/914674\/nexstar-tegna-merger-trump-local-news\">The future of local TV news has taken a Trumpian turn<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ufh7nr0 _1lkmsmo3 _1ufh7nr5\">\n<div class=\"_1ufh7nri\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"_2xqpwj4 _2xqpwj0\"><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp tvl9dp7 tvl9dp0 _1xwtict5\"><time datetime=\"2026-04-18T12:00:00+00:00\">Apr 18<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_1xwtict9 _1pm20r57 _1pm20r50\"><a class=\"_1lkmsmo0 _1lkmsmo4 _1lkmsmo5\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/tech\/914429\/the-ai-apps-are-coming-for-your-pc\">The AI apps are coming for your PC<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"duet--content-cards--content-card _1ufh7nr0 _1lkmsmo3 _1ufh7nr5\">\n<div class=\"_1ufh7nri\">\n<div>\n<div>\n<div class>\n<div class=\"_2xqpwj4 _2xqpwj0\"><span class=\"duet--article--timestamp tvl9dp7 tvl9dp0 _1xwtict5\"><time datetime=\"2026-04-20T17:12:43+00:00\">39 minutes ago<\/time><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<div class=\"_1xwtict9 _1pm20r57 _1pm20r50\"><a class=\"_1lkmsmo0 _1lkmsmo4 _1lkmsmo5\" href=\"https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/tech\/914996\/sergey-brin-said-google-needs-to-catch-up-to-anthropic-on-ai-coding-agents\">Sergey Brin said Google needs to catch up to Anthropic on AI coding agents.<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p><\/main><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Podcasts Close 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