{"id":1717831,"date":"2026-01-29T17:54:42","date_gmt":"2026-01-29T14:54:42","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/?p=1717831"},"modified":"2026-01-29T17:54:42","modified_gmt":"2026-01-29T14:54:42","slug":"ratboys-are-playing-the-long-game","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/?p=1717831","title":{"rendered":"Ratboys Are Playing the Long Game"},"content":{"rendered":"
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Interview<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

Ratboys Are Playing the Long Game<\/h1>\n
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The nicest indie rock band in Chicago has finally uncorked its true sound\u2014it only took 16 years. We catch up with the humble, hard-working Ratboys and talk about swinging for the fences with their new album, Singin\u2019 to an Empty Chair.<\/em><\/div>\n
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By <\/span>Nina Corcoran<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/div>\n

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Photo by Miles Kalchik<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/figure>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/header>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Before I can even touch the doorbell, I\u2019m ushered into the warmth of the Ratboys compound, a brick workers cottage from the turn of the century that guitarist Dave Sagan rents with a couple friends and his partner, Julia Steiner, the band\u2019s lead singer and guitarist.<\/p>\n

Around the perimeter of the living room, all four members of Ratboys are sprawled on sofas and lounge chairs watching Pluto TV\u2019s free Vevo channels, a nonstop rotation of music videos not unlike MTV\u2019s heyday. From their cushioned islands, they greet me like the close friend who gets a spare key. \u201cYou just missed this great Billy Joel live video,\u201d says Steiner. She walks to the kitchen to pour me a glass of water while attempting to relay the piano man\u2019s charm. She watched his new docuseries, she explains, and underestimated his sinuous life story. \u201cYou gotta admire how he\u2019s been at it so long.\u201d<\/p>\n

Bassist Sean Neumann and drummer Marcus Nuccio lead the way to Ratboys\u2019 longtime basement-turned-practice space, a surprisingly bright room sprouting with gear, a desktop listening area, and a red metallic bunk bed. They\u2019ve been using the space in Chicago\u2019s Montclare neighborhood for eight years, and the memorabilia has piled up: a hasty doodle of Shrek, a banner of Squidward gazing out the Krusty Krab service window. But it\u2019s also a time capsule of the band\u2019s even longer career: a three-foot-long, handwritten guitar tab for \u201cGo Outside\u201d; a 2022 X-ray of Sagan\u2019s elbow, broken while touring in Scandinavia; and Steiner\u2019s first-ever amp, a small Roland Microcube that she still busts out.<\/p>\n

Ratboys have been making music since 2010, a lifetime in indie rock years. Steiner met Sagan at college in Indiana, where they immediately started writing songs on an old Yamaha nylon-string guitar passed down from her mother; a few months later, the duo tracked the first Ratboys record. After graduating, Steiner and Sagan moved their small operation to Chicago and assembled full-band touring lineups for each album, even if certain members couldn\u2019t promise they\u2019d stick around. (For their 10th anniversary, Ratboys published a zine documenting their 10 drummers over the years, including Nnamd\u00ef and Dowsing\u2019s Mikey Crotty.) Ratboys\u2019 longevity feels casually destined; listening back, an old lyric in \u201cBugs!\u201d reads like the fateful moment it was decided: \u201cThe shaman I saw yesterday told me simply, \u2018Go.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n

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Photo by Miles Kalchik<\/span><\/div>\n<\/figure>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Sixteen years in, Ratboys have passed the usual breakup window for bands with members in their 30s. They can\u2019t live off band profits, they\u2019ve never gotten a big break, they didn\u2019t record with a formal producer until just recently\u2014and there\u2019s no bitterness about any of it. That\u2019s the upside of hearts uncorroded by entitlement or a major label\u2019s promise of fame. Around here, Ratboys are known among local bands and stagehands for their Midwestern kindness and good humor, with calloused hands from doing the work. \u201cNothing is guaranteed in this,\u201d says Nuccio. \u201cThat\u2019s like rule number one: Rock\u2019n\u2019roll doesn\u2019t owe you fucking shit. But anything you can do to stay consistent and grateful, I think that\u2019s a winning combo.\u201d<\/p>\n

Not only did Ratboys never contemplate breaking up, but the period in which bands with day jobs typically do so\u201410 to 12 years after forming\u2014was actually a window of rejuvenation. Less than two weeks after releasing Printer\u2019s Devil<\/em>, the COVID-19 lockdown began; the barely used tour backdrop still hangs over a mattress soundproofing their drum kit. But with Nuccio and Neumann officially in the lineup for that LP, Ratboys were hitting their stride and falling in love with being in a band. Trapped indoors, they started a Patreon and a Discord, filmed a livestream series, and rerecorded songs from their debut EP for the celebratory Happy Birthday, Ratboy<\/em>. \u201cWe kept things going in a way that allowed the momentum to build into doing The Window<\/em>,\u201d says Steiner, \u201cand then luckily that momentum never really stopped coming.\u201d<\/p>\n

That pent-up energy comes to a head on Singin\u2019 to an Empty Chair<\/em>, their sixth and best album. These songs have the clarified rush of an emotional pressure change, like the sensation of removing foam earplugs. The first time I spun Empty Chair<\/em>, I was struck by how strongly their songwriting reminded me of Death Cab for Cutie\u2019s ambitious pivot Narrow Stairs<\/em>: \u201cLight Night Mountains All That\u201d revels in a cacophonous layering process like \u201cBixby Canyon Bridge,\u201d the jaunty bass introducing \u201cAnywhere\u201d satirizes its lyrics like how \u201cNo Sunlight\u201d does, and the ominous progression of \u201cBurn It Down\u201d is the vexed older sibling of \u201cI Will Possess Your Heart.\u201d Maybe it\u2019s the dreamlike vocal harmonies between Steiner and Neumann, the freeform guitar solos from Sagan, or the animated prance of Nuccio\u2019s drums, but across all 11 songs, Empty Chair<\/em> sounds like Ratboys finally reaching the truest version of their sound.<\/p>\n

To hash out the demos that would become Empty Chair<\/em>, Ratboys booked a cabin in Richland Center, Wisconsin, in 2024. They tussled with ideas and half-formed songs until finalizing the arrangements, the most divergent of which was the audacious lead single, \u201cLight Night Mountains All That.\u201d After over six hours playing the song nonstop, they\u2019d created a batch of sprawling tendrils they couldn\u2019t figure out how to bottle up. Overwhelmed, they started yelling at each other, frustrated and excited to capture the song\u2019s potential. \u201cWe looked schizophrenic,\u201d laughs Nuccio. \u201cThis song felt crazy, but there was something intriguing about it, so we took a day to fully go down the wormhole, mapping it out on papers, figuring out the time change.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

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They brought the demos back to Chris Walla, the former Death Cab for Cutie guitarist who\u2019s now a coveted producer, to help find their way out of the maze. On Ratboys\u2019 previous album, The Window<\/em>, Walla\u2019s attentive and intuitive methods allowed the band to chisel away at its sound to uncover new dimensions. The producer\u2019s greatest strength, according to the band, is how he locates the feeling bubbling beneath a song and uncorks its emotional impact. \u201cWhen writing and demoing songs as the four of us, we\u2019re talking about music theory and chord progressions,\u201d explains Sagan, \u201cbut Chris refreshed our views by reaffirming our emotional direction.\u201d So Walla shipped some of his personal recording gear from Norway, packed two enormous suitcases, and flew to Chicago promising to help Ratboys capture the Empty Chair<\/em> they really wanted.<\/p>\n

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Julia Steiner, Vocals & Guitar<\/p>\n

<\/span>Photo by Marcus Nuccio<\/span><\/div>\n<\/figure>\n

At the urging of Walla, who admired how spacious their demos sounded under the high ceilings, Ratboys returned to the Wisconsin cabin in February 2025. The five of them pushed the furniture out of the living room, loaded in their gear, and settled in for a week of living together while Walla recorded their songs to tape. With no neighbors for miles, Ratboys let it rip. At the time, Sagan was getting antsy to perform live again; Neumann was grieving his dog, who\u2019d just died; Nuccio\u2019s full-time job was downgraded to a freelance position, then evaporated entirely; and Steiner had begun seeing a therapist, seeking support amid her parents\u2019 recent divorce and cracks surfacing in her family life. The simple rhythm of those Wisconsin days\u2014cooking meals together, fleshing out songs, rattling the windows during rehearsals, watching Kids in the Hall<\/em> to wind down\u2014became an emotional reset.<\/p>\n

Committed to emphasizing live takes, Ratboys learned to appreciate the imperfections in these recordings. A gust of wind howls in the background of \u201cStrange Love,\u201d a demure song fit for an old-timey diner, and makes Steiner and Neumann\u2019s harmonized coos even fuzzier. Instead of waiting for the perfect take, they started pursuing fleeting ideas in the moment. After recording \u201cPenny in the Lake\u201d nearly 18 times, it was the first recording of day six\u2014in which Nuccio impersonates a rooster greeting the sunrise\u2014that finally rolled its shoulders back and nailed the lackadaisical twang.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

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The real magic of Empty Chair<\/em> was captured at Electrical Audio, the late Steve Albini\u2019s studio back in Chicago. Neither Ratboys nor Walla had stepped foot in its hallowed halls before, so they gorged on its offerings: booking time in both studios A and B, jamming extensively to see where loose ideas concluded, working giddily with engineer Taylor Hales. Ratboys planned to record a plump bass note on a synthesizer or a guitar pedal for the intro of \u201cOpen Up,\u201d but Walla and Hales brainstormed an alternative method: drag a dozen snare drums into the room and mic them rattling after a bass note instead.<\/p>\n

\u201cUsing equipment that wasn\u2019t an instrument in a musical way was so fun and inspiring,\u201d says Sagan. \u201cEach song has a little element of sound design in addition to its straight-up recording. Maybe we\u2019re the only ones who can notice it, but it helped us get the feeling we wanted.\u201d A damaged pocket piano doubles as a shaker in \u201cLight Night Mountains All That,\u201d a wireless radio revolving on a turntable creates a Doppler effect in \u201cWhat\u2019s Right?\u201d, and a microphone spins around the room like a lasso to record an acoustic guitar in \u201cBurn It Down.\u201d Sagan used the ominously labeled \u201chell guitar\u201d at Electrical Audio\u2014a 16-string guitar with every string tuned to the same note\u2014to pepper chaotic, loud strums into \u201cLight Night Mountains All That,\u201d which were then reversed and treated.<\/p>\n

Ratboys sound youthful and raw, like they placed themselves in the moment while tracking each song. A large chunk of that spiritedness rests on the rhythm section, where Neumann steadily adds a flair and Nuccio picks up the pace behind his kit. While there\u2019s a little studio trickery, like a drum part taped at a slower tempo but sped up to the BPM in the recording, the rest was due to a perspective shift. \u201cFor a couple years in indie rock now, there\u2019s been a trend of very dry, dead, low-tuned drums that are quiet and muted,\u201d says Nuccio. \u201cChris [Walla] saw that and said, \u2018Let\u2019s be honest to our pop-punk roots.\u2019 So we did some unique drum treatments, like replacing the heads on the drum set, which were thin and clear, with these thick and coated heads that give it a snap, a lively sound. Motown is the same way.\u201d<\/p>\n

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Marcus Nuccio, Drums<\/p>\n

<\/span>Photo by Sean Neumann<\/span><\/div>\n<\/figure>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

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Before you can get the perfect take, you have to be able to lock in, and Ratboys are quick to credit Walla as an observant producer who recognizes the parameters of each member\u2019s comfort zone and helps them recreate it. Whenever Steiner entered the vocal booth, Walla noticed she would grab an object, usually a wheel of gaff tape, and fidget with it while singing. Rather than joke about it, he encouraged her to use it as a resource. \u201cHe was so perceptive and supportive,\u201d recalls Steiner. \u201cEventually, when it was time to do a vocal take, Chris wouldn\u2019t even say anything. He would just hand me the roll of tape, like, Off you go.\u201d<\/p>\n

Over email, Walla gushes about his time working with Ratboys. \u201cSome [bands] are fractured and tormented and ultimately unsustainable, and the discord fuels the work until it doesn\u2019t,\u201d he explains. \u201cSome are blissful and lucky and just happy to be there. Ratboys work because they work. Dave and Julia\u2019s chemistry has a perpetual-motion-machine quality to it, and Julia also knows how to lead a band; she\u2019s so clear and consistent, and she\u2019s always got the goods. And holy cow she\u2019s leading a great band.\u201d\u201d<\/p>\n

When we resurface outside, we\u2019re thrust into Chicago winter: fluffy snow banks covering the grass, sidewalks slicked in ice, sharp wind redistributing the topmost layer of snowflakes back into the air. We shuffle past Ratboys\u2019 shiny, newly purchased used camper van\u2014its blinker needs fixing\u2014and toward a well-worn SUV covered in snow. Sagan brushes off the windows and we all squeeze in. On the drive, they trade stories like tour guides, pointing out a neighborhood allegedly run by the Italian mob, a graffitied bridge in the woods where they smoke like high schoolers. In a city with two notoriously ill-fated baseball teams, Ratboys are split down the middle: two Sox fans, two Cubs fans.<\/p>\n

We arrive at our destination: Gene & Jude\u2019s. The old-school sign glowing atop the building beckons us inside, like some insignia of fast food proselytization. Built in 1950, the retro hotdog joint is the epitome of no-frills: Depression dogs and French fries, with toppings limited to mustard, relish, onions, and sport peppers. No ketchup; no seats. We eat standing up at the wraparound counter and revive our sports convo as a crew of construction workers ambles inside. Apart from her lifelong patronage of the Steelers, Steiner explains, she and her bandmates are Chicago-pilled through and through: Bears, Bulls, Blackhawks. As we talk at length about the Sox, it becomes clear they love the team not despite its foibles or financial pitfalls, but because it can\u2019t help but carry on. You can love a losing team knowing there\u2019s always next year, or you can be glad they\u2019re here hustling in the present.<\/p>\n

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Sean Neumann, Bass<\/p>\n

<\/span>Photo by Marcus Nuccio<\/span><\/div>\n<\/figure>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

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We relocate to Hala Kahiki Lounge, a sprawling tiki bar down the street that\u2019s over 60 years old, and Steiner opens up about some of the wounds she nursed while writing this record. For the past several years, she\u2019s been struggling to process the sudden estrangement of an unnamed relative. She attended therapy, a first in her life despite growing up with a psychiatrist father, and found the experience \u201crevelatory\u201d\u2014particularly when her therapist suggested she try the empty chair technique. The premise is straightforward: find a private space, sit down, and talk to an empty chair opposite you while envisioning the person with whom you\u2019d like to have an honest conversation. Back in her bedroom, Steiner blocked out time on her calendar, hit record on a voice memo, and started talking. What spooled out was a frank confession of hurts, cherished memories, and moments when she\u2019d sought clarity. \u201cListening back, I had this appreciation for the past while also not excusing any transgressions that have happened, and was hoping for possible reconciliation,\u201d says Steiner.<\/p>\n

That\u2019s the roadmap that would inspire Empty Chair<\/em>. It begins with \u201cOpen Up,\u201d in which a calm Steiner encourages someone to resume a long-paused conversation. \u201cI won\u2019t go,\u201d she sings softly. \u201cI\u2019m listening.\u201d It\u2019s the most work Ratboys have poured into seeing their ideas through, and the epiphanies\u2014and equally memorable regrets\u2014match the mood of a weight being lifted. Memories flash by in rapid succession in \u201cJust Want You to Know the Truth,\u201d where Steiner lays her heart bare for her estranged relative: \u201cIt\u2019s not that I don\u2019t miss you\/Or the way it used to be\/It\u2019s that I can\u2019t live my life\/Without sayin\u2019 anything.\u201d<\/p>\n

Unless her future self thwarts the plan, Steiner will mail a copy of Empty Chair<\/em> to her estranged relative in hopes of reconciliation. \u201cIt feels a little bit strange to admit this, but part of this record, for me, was a bit utilitarian, almost like a communication tool,\u201d she says. \u201cMaybe this is taking the easy way out, but having the opportunity to send it as an olive branch is a way to talk without talking.\u201d Steiner takes a deep breath, flushed with nerves and a dash of guilt, and looks around the table at her bandmates. \u201cI’m grateful that y\u2019all were patient enough with me to let it happen naturally, because it took a long time.\u201d<\/p>\n

Steiner\u2019s bandmates rush to reassure her that it was never a question, that it was more than worth it; it\u2019s a centerpiece of Empty Chair<\/em> and their long journey of Ratboys overall. For the next half an hour, they share their favorite memories from the album sessions: Sagan\u2019s timeless guitar solos, Steiner\u2019s idea for the tracklist, Neumann\u2019s smooth vocal harmonies, Nuccio\u2019s creative use of synth. On Empty Chair<\/em>, it all comes together to leave the lasting impression that everything will work out if you surround yourself with loved ones. \u201cThat building of trust has always been strengthening, and that helps our anxious minds know that it\u2019s going to be okay,\u201d says Neumann.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

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As we pile back into Ratboys\u2019 SUV and Sagan once again clears snow from its windshield, Steiner turns the radio to their favorite station, an oldies channel that plays only music recorded prior to 1970, with one exception: Cher\u2019s \u201cBelieve\u201d on Saturday nights. The conversation turns to the Bears, who play the Rams this weekend following their first NFL playoff win in 15 years. They haven\u2019t looked this good in a long, long time. The air in Chicago is charged with a belief that anything can happen. Some would advise against that kind of hope, especially for a sports fan, but why deny yourself the possibility of a dream fulfilled? It\u2019s one of the best feelings in the world.<\/p>\n

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Source URL: http:\/\/pitchfork.com\/features\/ratboys-are-playing-the-long-game\/<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Interview Ratboys Are Playing the Long Game The nicest indie rock band in Chicago has finally uncorked its true sound\u2014it only took 16 years. We catch up with the humble, hard-working Ratboys and talk about swinging for the fences with their new album, Singin\u2019 to an Empty Chair. By Nina Corcoran January 29, 2026 Photo […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":1717832,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[2],"tags":[226,54],"class_list":["post-1717831","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-politics","tag-crawlmanager","tag-pitchfork-com"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1717831","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=1717831"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1717831\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/media\/1717832"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=1717831"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=1717831"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/analyse.optim.biz\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=1717831"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}